Mitsuomi

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:17 pm

hey, I was hoping someone could help me out with a few questions regarding Mitsuomi.
I've read the Tenjo Tenge manga up to volume 9 and am confused on a few things (mostly the past arc).
Why is it that Mitsuomi was blamed for killing Shin when the girl with glasses poked him with the needle?
Why is it that Mitsuomi is supposedly the strongest but he gets his ass beat by Souichiro in volume 4, then walks away? Didn't he just sock that feminine looking guy in the face for being a disgrace? He's the disgrace when he should be all powerful.
Also, in the "Past" arc, what is going on after Mitsuomi has sex with that girl and she gives him that video? What happened on it? I've read that part but I don't get it.
Last, why does Mitsuomi become all evil just because he is head of the inforcement group? Like why does he not like Masataka or will this be explained later?

Thx to anyone that helps me with this.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:52 pm

solidis1 wrote:hey, I was hoping someone could help me out with a few questions regarding Mitsuomi.
I've read the Tenjo Tenge manga up to volume 9 and am confused on a few things (mostly the past arc).
Why is it that Mitsuomi was blamed for killing Shin when the girl with glasses poked him with the needle?

Because people don't necassarily assign blame where it might logically belong.

solidis1 wrote: Why is it that Mitsuomi is supposedly the strongest but he gets his ass beat by Souichiro in volume 4, then walks away? Didn't he just sock that feminine looking guy in the face for being a disgrace? He's the disgrace when he should be all powerful.

He is very strong, but due to a heart condition caused by his fight with Shin, he can only exert himself for about 3 minutes before dying.

solidis1 wrote: Also, in the "Past" arc, what is going on after Mitsuomi has sex with that girl and she gives him that video? What happened on it? I've read that part but I don't get it.

It was a tape of Shin going nuts and killing people. "That girl" is Mana Kuzunoha. I have very nice character lists that should make it easy to look up anyone's name...

solidis1 wrote: Last, why does Mitsuomi become all evil just because he is head of the inforcement group? Like why does he not like Masataka or will this be explained later?

Thx to anyone that helps me with this.

Is he evil? He's just trying to bring the Takayanagi clan back to power in the short time that he has left to himself. He doesn't like Masataka because he is weak.

fugu

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 6:10 pm

Awesome. Thanks for clearing that stuff up. I, now like Mitsuomi more than I used to

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 7:29 pm

solidis1 wrote:Why is it that Mitsuomi is supposedly the strongest but he gets his ass beat by Souichiro in volume 4, then walks away?

Mitsuomi isn't the strongest. He is the leader of the Takayanagi clan, the enforcement group, and "F," but that doesn't necessarily make his the "strongest." He is clearly stronger than any of the folks that he fought in the high school tournament, but that also doesn't necessarily mean a hell of a lot.

Tawara Bunshichi is the uber-von-badass, and even moreso in light of his ability to make clear-headed decisions about what fights he gets into. I suspect that in the long run, Nagi Souichiro will be revealed as being the "strongest" of the main characters, simply due to his placement as the main character of the story. I'd give a 10% chance that Bob turns out to be the "strongest" overall, but that's just an unsubstantiated hunch.

Last, why does Mitsuomi become all evil just because he is head of the inforcement group?

You're mixing up your cause and effect here. Mitsuomi became the head of the enforcement group, coordinated a revolt against the older generation through "F," and generally went "evil" for the same reason. What that reason is hasn't been revealed yet. Apparently he didn't like how his father was running things, but we have very little information about that other than their manipulation of Shin. Maybe he was bitter that they worked him like a dog to become a better fighter when in his heart of hearts he really wanted to do interpretive dance?

We have a much clearer look at the motivations of Nagi, Shin and Tsumuji (F) than Mitsuomi. I hope we get more information about his motivations in future chapters, though I suspect that it'll wait until everything comes to a head (probably after at least one epic battle per member of "F" and a high school tournament).

Fulsion · Post by **Fulsion** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 8:05 pm

but he gets his ass beat by Souichiro in volume 4, then walks away?

Heart condition aside, another reason was that to be honest, he was about to pound on Nagi him but then Bunshichi appeared with a water bottle and cooled him off, haha ^_^

I suspect he doesn't like Masataka not because he's weak(er) (Masataka isn't THAT weak) it's just because they both cannot see eye to eye on the same stuff. They did part ways when Mitsoumi overthrew his Dad and F group, after all (and joined Jyuukenbu/Natsume group a short time after)

One thing I'm curious about is why Asshat is so scared of Mitsoumi (remember how when Nagi and Bob see him for the first time and he's all cool, but some Mitsoumi lookalike walks past and Asshat dives under a table, hahaha) I hope they give out an explanation, because it does look like Asshat has some potential as a fighter, it's just they never explained why he doesn't fight nor why he's so scared of Mitsoumi. IIRC they never directly met or fought in the manga either...

Hotaru · Post by **Hotaru** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 10:05 pm

Mitsuomi didn't really get his ass kick, he just got only a few punch though. And he hasn't pull off his full strengh yet. I can't wait to see him in fight again.

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Wed Mar 24, 2004 11:18 pm

Well, maybe from Mitsuomi's point of view, Masataka's weakness could be seen as having two meanings.

First of all--in the bowling alley incident, Mitsuomi does comment on Masataka's failure to improve or his failure to reach certain standards. Moreover, Masataka is unlike the Mitsuomi who decided to be proactive and change the way things were. In that respect, that too could be seen as "weakness."

With regard to Mitsuomi, I think he would still win if he faced Nagi at that time--but then again he was already reaching his limit anyway. Nagi could also win albeit by a relatively small margin.

And the strongest is still Bunshichi in my opinion. Unlike Shin, Maya, Masataka and a few others, Bunshichi doesn't seem to be a tempered martial artist. The guy's more of a brawler--pure and simple. Through raw talent and experience alone, he's still able to beat the snot out of anybody. He's arguably the strongest so far. He even stops Nagi's Forged Needle by using his foot. (Kinda reminds me of the time when Bob stops Maya's sword with his leg.)

Fulsion · Post by **Fulsion** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 5:44 am

Bunshichi doesn't seem to be a tempered martial artist.

He isn't. Mana said of Bunshichi = "Unorganised Murderous Brawling School, Winning Style"

The guy's killed like what was it ? 50-70 odd people wasn't it ? (the pic with him standing on top of the mountain of corpses with some guy's head in his hand, and tombstones everywhere with a hard-on - lol x 100)

Talking about strong or not, those F group dudes seem to be pretty strong too (well, we've mostly seen their parents right, I'm assuming it's most of their kids that are in with Mitsoumi atm). But I wonder about Nagi's Dad too (his mother took out a group of yakuza-ish thugs by herself, his Dad must be pretty nasty too

)

Tristan · Post by **Tristan** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 6:06 am

Two cents on the Mitsoumi/Asshat relationship from things I've seen in their general behavior..

First is the fact that they probally -did- have contact.. if you remember, there's that whole period (2-3 months) between when they all form the Jyuukenbu to when Shin dies and Mitsoumi overthrows his father. 2 months or so of that was after the fights, when Mitsoumi was :E :E :E. Still, they all get together for a photo and had school, so they probally hung out on some level.

Second is that if you notice.. Mitsoumi gave all the Jyukenbu a chance to follow him. Bushichi took it, Maya and Asshat didn't, infact they both stayed in the Jyuukenbu.. Maya + Mitsoumi = <3, so she got off easy. But Asshat being a friend could of caused him to feel betrayed as Mitsoumi gets really pissy at the thought of anyone not following his rules/lead.

The last comes from speech.. or rather, notice how he addresses Mitsoumi and Shin. Shin is -san in his flashback idolization, while Mitsoumi is still -kun in the present, despite being the tyranical leader.. yet everyone else refers to him as -san for the most part. Just a little speech tidbit that could mean something later on, but it seems they're still close on some level or another. -Kun wouldn't really be a rude way of saying it either, if you think about it, so that discounts that

And on a final note.. He has bodyguards, and Nagi mentions him constantly putting down groups who want to stand up to Mitsoumi. Maybe his abilities as a fighter tie into that? Who knows, he could turn out to be a crouching tiger, hidden dragon who's quite capable of defending himself..

But I'd generally assume that the reason he's scared of Mitsoumi, is because Mitsoumi "killed" Shin, because he was put in the hospital for quite a long time (which traumatized him) and because he stayed in the Jyuukenbu, despite probally being offered a chance to join the enforcement group. Bad blood with Mitsoumi, plus with the Enforcement Group's tactics and the ammount of people Sugano has to "protect".. maybe he's just scared of them being a target?

Just a few thoughts on the character. - Tristan

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Thu Mar 25, 2004 4:43 pm

Great topics, I forgot about Bunshichi. However, Oh, Great! has strayed a little(maybe broadened the story?) from directly dealing with Mitsuomi. Not that this is bad though. Many new things are coming toward the characters.
One thing though, am I wrong or is that guy with the sword and goggles, with mrs nagi, souichirou's dad? He cut off her arm on one spread page, huh? I know how she lossed her eye, but why did he cut off her arm? will this be explained?

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:20 pm

solidis1 wrote: One thing though, am I wrong or is that guy with the sword and goggles, with mrs nagi, souichirou's dad?

Yes, we think it's Souichiro's father.

He cut off her arm on one spread page, huh?

Yes, it looks like he cut off Souichiro's mother's arm.

I know how she lossed her eye, but why did he cut off her arm? will this be explained?

No we don't know why. Whether it will be explained has yet to be seen. Oh Great! has been creating a lot of loose ends in this storyline, and it remains unclear whether he intends to tie them up or leave their interpretation as an excersize for the reader. It seems that for every answer the author gives us, we get two new questions.

Banorac · Post by **Banorac** » Sat Mar 27, 2004 6:32 pm

Hm, I always figured she lost her arm to the Dragon's fist

pure · Post by **pure** » Sun Jun 13, 2004 10:42 pm

i'm a couple months late but i wish to add my view of the situation in.^_^

i think mitsuomi shows a dislike for masataka's "weakness" because masataka is what mitsuomi used to be. someone who is strong but could and should be much stronger than he is. i expect to see masataka's doubts about his true abilities cleared up but mitsuomi needed shin as inspiration to reach his apex and even then he needed a "power boost".

imo, mitsuomi might be trying to be masataka's shin. not the kind, friendly shin that had him at ease but the demon-like shin that made mitsuomi overcome his insecurities and decide to become strong at all cost.

mitsuomi made a comment about his brother having powerful friends, something he himself didn't learn from his father. in that moment of hindsight, it gave me a feeling that he felt things would have been different, better, if he had done the same. for if he had, he wouldn't have had to face his monster, shin, alone. he would have had others that stood by his side to oppose shin.

TW_J · Post by **TW_J** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 3:02 am

whoa good point pure anywayz i have a question and i dont an expect a fact answer it can be an opinion.

in vol 11 kurei mentions a portion of souhaku's plans like souichirou being group "F"'s trump card and that the "F" group's plans extend much further than what the enforcment group's. since souhaku kidnapped souichirou do u think souichirou will become totally different when he appears?(meaning is there a good chance that souichirou will become stronger and be different since souhaku himself is putting a use to souchirou and dispose of him later since destroying the exorcist's family was his original plan)i think souichirou wont be that stupid arrogant idiot he was since the F group's plan is to use souichirou he'll most likely get tortured to get stronger. though can anyone tell me what souhaku meant when he sed to makiko "everything you lost lives within souichirou"?

Thanathos · Post by **Thanathos** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:09 am

pure wrote:i'm a couple months late but i wish to add my view of the situation in.^_^
i think mitsuomi shows a dislike for masataka's "weakness" because masataka is what mitsuomi used to be. someone who is strong but could and should be much stronger than he is. i expect to see masataka's doubts about his true abilities cleared up but mitsuomi needed shin as inspiration to reach his apex and even then he needed a "power boost".
imo, itsuomi might be trying to be masataka's shin. not the kind, friendly shin that had him at ease but the demon-like shin that made mitsuomi overcome his insecurities and decide to become strong at all cost.
mitsuomi made a comment about his brother having powerful friends, something he himself didn't learn from his father. in that moment of hindsight, it gave me a feeling that he felt things would have been different, better, if he had done the same. for if he had, he wouldn't have had to face his monster, shin, alone. he would have had others that stood by his side to oppose shin.

OMFG!, i readed you opinion and i totally agree, mitsuomi isn't evil, he is just trying to make the world a better place :p , in the ...year that is left for him. so i really think that he is a good person making cruel and hasty action

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:31 am

Hey may not be truely evil, IMO, he's fighting for his owns beliefs of the way he thinks things should be. Don't get me wrong, someone had to overthrough Dougen. But Didn't Dougen make MItsuomi?Other than that, what is he really fighting for, how is his goal diffrent from Sohaku's? How can he order an Attack on the Enmi clan? And if it wasn't him then how can he allow Shohaku to move his own troops as he pleases. How can he be ignorant to the fact that innocent people are getting hurt and killed due to his goals. He either doesn't care how his organization is moved or is just ignorant to all this. It's almost if he himself was being blinded by Sohaku.I don't buy into any of his angst, he had what seemed like a pampered life with Dougen, and decided he wanted to be the BIG BOSS.

TW_J · Post by **TW_J** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 8:28 pm

pv82 wrote:Hey may not be truely evil, IMO, he's fighting for his owns beliefs of the way he thinks things should be. Don't get me wrong, someone had to overthrough Dougen. But Didn't Dougen make MItsuomi?Other than that, what is he really fighting for, how is his goal diffrent from Sohaku's? How can he order an Attack on the Enmi clan? And if it wasn't him then how can he allow Shohaku to move his own troops as he pleases. How can he be ignorant to the fact that innocent people are getting hurt and killed due to his goals. He either doesn't care how his organization is moved or is just ignorant to all this. It's almost if he himself was being blinded by Sohaku.I don't buy into any of his angst, he had what seemed like a pampered life with Dougen, and decided he wanted to be the BIG BOSS.

why is it that i have a bad feeling that mitsoumi wont die from his heart condition instead get killed by either souichirou(thats a big IF if souichirou comes back as group F's representative) or Souhaku

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:35 pm

pv82 wrote:Hey may not be truely evil, IMO, he's fighting for his owns beliefs of the way he thinks things should be.

"Fighting for your own beliefs" is Japanese manga/anime code language for when a writer doesn't want to explain whether somebody is behaving properly or not.

But then, we don't really know what Mitsuomi has done that makes him so bad, what motivates him to behave poorly, or even really in what way he has misbehaved, other than associating with some pretty screwed-up individuals.

Agent_Wax · Post by **Agent_Wax** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:54 pm

"Fighting for your own beliefs" is Japanese manga/anime code language for when a writer doesn't want to explain whether somebody is behaving properly or not.

That may be so, but it doesn't make it any less true that 'good' and 'evil' are, for the most part, personal opinions in the real world. I think it takes a level of emotional and spiritual maturity to realise that, which is why black-and-white notions of 'good vs. evil' are so popular in fiction, and not just among young audiences.

User151 · Post by **User151** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:10 am

I wanna know how Mitsuomi became strong also. Does he also hav some "powers" like Souichiro and in a sense absorb some of Shin energy. Or is it just a unexpected by-product of Shin hitting him.

I also think that he's not so evil person, not even him also his father, Souichiro father and even Mataza. They all don't look so evil. I even once thought Dougen as an evil person but he doesn't look anything evil now. These ppl are just fighting for their own beliefs but killing other ppl without any reasons and just for your own beliefs is also not a very good thing either.

User151 · Post by **User151** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 6:26 am

And also about Mitsuomi and his enforcement group and the way they handle things might not be so wrong. Cos somebody once said there are ppl with latent powers at the school and i think he doesn't want these powers to be awaken cos if the person can't handle it, they could go insane. These ppl could become a danger to others as well as themselves.

In vol 10 last chapter, Mataza brother was locked up and pinned to the chair because he had gone insane and couldn't control his powers? Also during the past arc, Shin was locked up by his parents cos they think his weak spirit can't handle his own powers and they were right.

I bet there might be alot of ppl at the Takayanagi headquaters that's very much like Mataza's brother. And so Mitsuomi got sick of it and tried to stop it while he can. And because he belief he had to become a "demon" to defeat a demon, he's becoming evil bit by bit. So in general, I don't think he's doing a bad thing. Rather, he's more like doing a right thing in a very bad way.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 8:20 am

User151 wrote:In vol 10 last chapter, Mataza brother was locked up and pinned to the chair because he had gone insane and couldn't control his powers?

Mataza Tsumuji was torturing Mataza Yorihira for years because of how he was treated when he first came to the family. Re-read that section, it is very clear.

User151 · Post by **User151** » Fri Jun 18, 2004 12:25 pm

[quote="FuguTabetai] Mataza Tsumuji was torturing Mataza Yorihira for years because of how he was treated when he first came to the family. Re-read that section, it is very clear.[/quote]

Thanks for correcting me man. I didn't see the Tsumuji Estate ...he he hee. I thought Mataza only got the eight spears and torture them. I never thought he also got his own brother. So why do Mitsuomi wanna stop latent powers from awakening.

pure · Post by **pure** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 3:03 pm

to me, in my own very humble opinion, mitsuomi has done nothing wrong EXCEPT that he has sacrificed happiness for order. the fact that the school was a fighting paradise under shin has been mentioned a couple times but it couldn't continue to be that way if mitsuomi was to prevent the events from the past from happening again for even though competition brings out the best in people, it also brings out the very worst.

shin couldn't control his "very worst" and a long line of people were victims, this will never happen under mitsuomi because anyone that steps out of line is quickly taken care of. this is seen when nagi and bob were just randomly beating up people on what, i think, was their first day. mitsuomi ordered them to be punished and be forced to transfer.

in our society, people die every day to preserve "order", the only difference is that they are not characters in a manga with a pre-written "history".

truly, aside from natsume "group", there are no other struggles at the school. if you look at it from mitsuomi's prespective, they are the "villians", the destroyers of the school's calmness. mitsuomi could crush them and any other group if he was so "evil".

i believe we were shown mitsuomi at his high and low points because he was never considered to be a villian. he was a victim, the very worst type of victim in my opinion, in the past arc, and now he's a victim in the present, too.

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Sun Jun 20, 2004 8:08 pm

I retract my previous comment: Mitsuomi is clearly the badguy. Between the hair and the bodysuit, he's got to be evil.

bigtrollhentai · Post by **bigtrollhentai** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 4:19 pm

pure wrote:to me, in my own very humble opinion, mitsuomi has done nothing wrong EXCEPT that he has sacrificed happiness for order. the fact that the school was a fighting paradise under shin has been mentioned a couple times but it couldn't continue to be that way if mitsuomi was to prevent the events from the past from happening again for even though competition brings out the best in people, it also brings out the very worst.

shin couldn't control his "very worst" and a long line of people were victims, this will never happen under mitsuomi because anyone that steps out of line is quickly taken care of. this is seen when nagi and bob were just randomly beating up people on what, i think, was their first day. mitsuomi ordered them to be punished and be forced to transfer.

in our society, people die every day to preserve "order", the only difference is that they are not characters in a manga with a pre-written "history".

truly, aside from natsume "group", there are no other struggles at the school. if you look at it from mitsuomi's prespective, they are the "villians", the destroyers of the school's calmness. mitsuomi could crush them and any other group if he was so "evil".

i believe we were shown mitsuomi at his high and low points because he was never considered to be a villian. he was a victim, the very worst type of victim in my opinion, in the past arc, and now he's a victim in the present, too.

I agree with this description on Mitsuomi.

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Mon Jun 21, 2004 6:44 pm

pure wrote:i believe we were shown mitsuomi at his high and low points because he was never considered to be a villian. he was a victim, the very worst type of victim in my opinion, in the past arc, and now he's a victim in the present, too.

Victim in the Past Arc? IMO opinion, if anyone ended well it was him.
Cons
After all his hard work, Maya wasn't bowing to her knees to him
Shin shortend his life expectancy
Pros
Overthrough Dougen to be the Headhoncho of Takayangi (not to metion he did this when he was a freshman) and enjoy all the riches that followed
All Clan have bowed to his will (kinda goes with the one above, Do you realize how powerful the head of the Takayanagi is)
Leader of the Enforcement Group

I will agree that he has become a major tool (and it seems from what Kurei said that SHohaku is using him

) in the present arc. yes, he may seem like a victim. He had everything given to him until he decided to take the rest. Now it seems that he is scared and wants to have a chance to fight back.

pure · Post by **pure** » Thu Jun 24, 2004 11:59 pm

Victim in the Past Arc? IMO opinion, if anyone ended well it was him.

without a doubt in my mind, we're looking at it from different points of view. to focus on what someone gained against losses that are priceless is...i would say, imho, foolish.

mitsuomi lost the girl he loved, his best friend, the comrads he was slated to lead in katana, the "fighting paradise" they were promised, his little brother, a growing kids right to be unsure in his abilities and gradually grow into them, lost years of his life and, most importantly, he lost his innocence.

in other words, the mitsuomi from the beginning of the past arc lost everything. everything. so you say he gained riches and the ability to be damn near unbeatable when he fights when even both of those come with terrible cons.

i say mitsuomi was the worst of victims in the past arc because, not only did he feel the need to kill his best friend and love interest's brother, he had to train months to do it. training everyday with the thought to kill a person you loved, day in and day out. and in the end, he even lost the girl. why do you think it was said shin killed him, too? because he overthrew his father and got some money?

"mitsuomi" didn't make it out of the past arc. he died the day shin gave him that scar. any appearance after that was simply a ghost, a ghost who's heart, strangely enough imo, resides within maya. maya will be the one to say this ghost or leave it to its fate.

i know my thoughts are kind of scattered but, in conclusion, the "gears of fate" forced mitsuomi to live in the world of the demon he fought so hard to save everyone from. to have to fight someone you love and respect to give freedom to someone else you love only to have the latter turn back around and cage herself is something i wouldn't wish upon the strongest ally of my worst enemy. it gives the appearance that all the sins you committed, the hell you put yourself through for that person was all for naught. add in the relationships of the people involved and it becomes even worse.

now you're dying and being forced to oppose the only person that can save you from that want, that NEED, to fight that will lead to even more suffering and, soon, death.

i would go even further in depth but i feel it shouldn't be necessary. name one person who lost more than him. that past arc, imho, wasn't about the death of shin, it was about the death of mitsuomi.

Isuzu · Post by **Isuzu** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 4:42 am

All in all, I must say that Mitsuomi isn't to blame for how things happened in the past - I guees if Shin wouldn't have had this crush on Maya, this whole confrontation would not have got out of control like it did.

Everything that followed is just a result of what Mitsuomi thought about that "fighting paradise" - it took away his best friend, it took away his best friend's girlfriend, and because of the "fighting paradise", the girl he loves does not want to have anything to do with him anymore. Sad story.

So, what Mitsuomi erected in the Todou Gakuen (his principle of law and order) is just the opposite extreme to how it was in Shin's times. At least, people don't die because of this.

With taking his father's power and throwing him out of commission, he just did what he thought was right - eliminate everything that makes people kill each other. Remember, it was Mitsuomi's father who was highly responsible for Shin to freak out on a regular basis.

After all, I don't think it's Mitsuomi's fault - his father, all in all, is to blame that his oldest son now seems to be the bad guy.

All he wants to achieve is that the events that took place three years ago don't repeat themselves. They seem to do, though, but he isn't to blame for that, because he didn't start all this. Soichiro and Bob forced the Enforcement Group to take action because they behaved like shit and totally deserved a beating - it is Maya's stubbornness that actually stands in the way of a peaceful solution. Mitsuomi didn't kill her older brother, and she should be aware of that. He stopped her brother to kill masses of people, don't forget that... Maya cries because a mass murderer has killed himself after blowing his girlfriend to pieces. Of course, Shin's her brother, but Shin behaved like a total lunatic, Shin forced Mitsuomi to fight him.

Why does Maya blame Mitsuomi for putting an end to this killing? Just because she loves her brother?

I mean... Masataka was spoiled by Mitsuomi's father, too - he joined Maya's club, but he should have been in support of his brother, because his brother's motives aren't that bad. Through all this, Mr. Takayanagi sen. again is pushing forward another fierce conflict. Doesn't this idiot ever learn?

Remember, it's always the parents who spoil their kids.

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 6:30 am

This was somewhat discussed already on another thread I believe. As for what I think, Maya's accusation isn't simply about Mitsuomi killing her brother per se, but more of the kind of person he's become. The old Dougen and the present Mitsuomi are arguably on the same path--the same conditions have become more tightly reinforced--hence, the question was asked: what were they fighting for, and for whom?

It's not Shin's "fighting paradise" that took away all those things, but those who sought to exploit it--The Takayanagi Clan under Dougen's leadership. Ironically, whatever Mitsuomi is trying to accomplish, he will do so with that very same power he has at hand. Like they say, "the more things change, the more they stay the same."

Like you say so yourself: Don't they ever learn?

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Fri Jun 25, 2004 7:18 am

I respect what alot fo guys say and understand to a certain degree. But i also don't think I am foolish in my assertion of Mitisumi's Character. They may be more biased that everyone else, cause I just don't like his character and would enjoy it if Oh great would have just written his character off of the whole series. Yes, Pure, geniune friendship and relationship are pricesless. But if they are so precious, then why did mitsumi not say "F" Dougen and the Takayanigi Clan, Ive got the love of Maya and friends. No, he choose the other path, no one forced him to be head of the Takayanigi. I have a firm belief that Maya doesn't hold Mitsumi solely repsonsible for Shin's suicide. I think sooner or later, she would have forgiven him. But he changed, that's what she hates about him. I agree with Isuzu and Kujoe, thier isn't much diffrence between the present him and the old Dougen, Self Righteous Tyrants. I do feel more for him now that it seems that Kurei has revealed that Mitsumi may be weak against Shohaku. Also, I was just wondering where is was shown that Masataka was spoiled, no mean to argue but of what I have seen the only currently enjoying the spoils of the Takayangi Clan is Mitsumi. Now that he is leader, Masataka seems to just be wearing the last name, but not enjoying anything else that comes with it like he was disowned. Plus, Masataka is pretty mature about alot of stuff and doesn't come off as a spoiled brat. Someone made a comment a while back that Masataka is weak because he is anot as assertive as his brother. Maybe he just doesn't have the same beliefs as his brother, does that atomatically make him weak? I think he would be a weak puppet or clone if he went along with everything Mitsumi believed. Just my opinion though guys, you all make such vaild points

. Tenge Tenjo Scholars

pure · Post by **pure** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 3:34 pm

i've pointed this out before but masataka IS the past arc's mitsuomi. there are too many parallels for this to be ignored. he's after a girl that can only see someone else(aya-nagi/ maya-shin), he has confidence problems, he follows a natsume that he believes to be much stronger than him(shin-mitsuomi/ maya-masataka) when mitsuomi stated that his clan was suppose to lead, notice the nervous shaking during the fight with the chinese fighter in the recent chapter that was similar to mitsuomi's at the thought of fighting shin, this is all topped off by the main protagonist(souhaku-masataka's dad) letting "true warrior" come out their mouths concerning both of them.

all we see now is masataka's apparent weakness because he hasn't fully stepped into that world yet. that "world of demons" is why mitsuomi rejects his brother. mitsuomi believes that to fight demons you must become a demon and after seeing what it done to him, he tried to keep masataka away from it. this also reminds me of shin becoming a "demon" in order to protect maya and prevent her from doing the same.

i believe that masataka will raise his fists to mitsuomi and all of this will come out. he is in pursuit of mitsuomi the same way maya was in pursuit of shin. the names are changing but the actions are staying the same.

jacko · Post by **jacko** » Sat Jun 26, 2004 7:08 pm

Maybe in Mitsuomi's view that Shin's way was wrong. Maybe so, maybe not. The problem with his "law and order" idea is that he is inflexible, and because a tyrant with it.

NatsumeShin · Post by **NatsumeShin** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 3:27 pm

I dont know what was THAT bad about Shin's *Fighting Paradise* yeah sure people died but.....so what? it aint like no one died during Mitsuomi's rule,just look at the Enma family,it was decimated by the Takayanagi family's thug and Mataza Tsumuji. Shin and Mitsuomi are both charismatic leaders who attract people to themselves easily and are regarded as *Hero's* by some.....everyone's got their time.And yeah....face it, Maya's a Bitch and everyone's leaving her side (conflict with sister about Nagi, Bob unhappy about her poor training of him,Souichirou.....her trump card taken from her) what has she got left?

Mellow Yellow · Post by **Mellow Yellow** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:41 pm

The Enma family massacre was outside of the school tho. I thought their "fighting paradise" was in regards to their lives at school? Although the fights have moved outside of the school into the real world now

Shinpachi · Post by **Shinpachi** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 6:44 pm

This is just an idea, but maybe they were being a lot more literal than we realized when they said Mitsuomi was killed by Shin. Perhaps Mitsuomi has already truly died, and Souhaku's using his necromancy dragon's gate to keep him 'alive'. It's a biiiiig longshot, but ya never know, that'd explain why Souhaku hasn't recieved the beating of his life from Mitsuomi yet (you can tell that Mitsuomi knows Souhaku's doing things behind his back and that he's not too fond of it).

pure · Post by **pure** » Sun Jun 27, 2004 10:29 pm

one thing i believe is that sometimes a tyrant is needed. in times of extreme chaos, a tyrant provides a focal point of power, it helps that mitsuomi is really strong to begin with.

This is just an idea, but maybe they were being a lot more literal than we realized when they said Mitsuomi was killed by Shin. Perhaps Mitsuomi has already truly died, and Souhaku's using his necromancy dragon's gate to keep him 'alive'. It's a biiiiig longshot, but ya never know, that'd explain why Souhaku hasn't recieved the beating of his life from Mitsuomi yet (you can tell that Mitsuomi knows Souhaku's doing things behind his back and that he's not too fond of it).

souhaku walked into a hospital with the former head of a family, aya with the ability to open her dragon's eye at will AND an irrate nagi that was able to open his dragon's gate at will, too...of course we know how this turned out. mitsuomi will die if he fights souhaku head on. "F" will kill his enforcement group(i now believe there is a member of "F" that can kill mitsuomi, too, but that's a different discussion) and all of "F" combined could lead mitsuomi past his time limit before he had the opportunity to reach souhaku.

i slipped into that line of reasoning for a minute and a half before i decided that mitsuomi isn't under his control. imho, mitsuomi is trying to acquire his "true wings" to break any sort of dependence on souhaku's "F" and, quite possibly, to go after souhaku.

with mataza not yet making an appearance, we can say that "F" is down to three members. two of which, i'm pretty sure, could put a dent in the enforcement group on their own(as the user of the "water bullet" still has an amazing amount of strength without having to rely on it) and the dude in the suit, who i'm sure is also strong, i just haven't seen fight yet.

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 3:28 pm

Yeah, plus there is another member not shown at all yet. If you remember in volume 9, they show mitsuomi surrounded by F with Madoka, Ishiyumi, Kabuto(guy w/ glasses), Mataza, and the "Healing Palm" guy. There is also 1 other member in a cloak w/ a staff. He is not shown yet.

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:09 pm

solidis1 wrote:Yeah, plus there is another member not shown at all yet. If you remember in volume 9, they show mitsuomi surrounded by F with Madoka, Ishiyumi, Kabuto(guy w/ glasses), Mataza, and the "Healing Palm" guy. There is also 1 other member in a cloak w/ a staff. He is not shown yet.

Ive been asking about that person for sometime

Guesses
Fu
Just a another nasty surprise courtesy of Shohaku

I hope whoever it is, they are strong. I'd like to see stronger Antagonists, but then i always root for the BAD GUYS

jacko · Post by **jacko** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 12:46 am

I find it interesting that Nagi is mirroring Shin in past arc, and Masataka is mirroring Mitsuomi past arc....

EliteF22 · Post by **EliteF22** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:52 am

Actually I see Nagi choosing whether to walk down his father Sohaku's path. Masataka recently made that comment about Aya resembling her brother Shin, so I think she might have a struggle similar to Shin's. Masataka is having to choose whether or not he is going to live his life like his brother and decided whether or not to become a demon in order to fight demons. Here's one similarity that I don't know if many people picked up on is that Bob and Bunshichi are similar in that they both rely on physical strength when fighting and their both close friends with the main protaganist for their arcs. Now as for the relationships, I have an inkling as to how they may be similar to the past, but I haven't really seen any evidence that I may be close in my deduction.

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:32 am

Shin and Nagi have similarities that have been hinted throughout the manga. Hell, even Asshat was reminded of Shin for a brief moment. But since both characters are different and have different pasts, such similarities can only be just that--similarities--or at most, as foreshadowing clues. I think what Nagi will be going through will ultimately be different with Souhaku and F in the picture, but the basic gist of it can still be comparable with that of Shin's.

Masataka's story may indeed mirror Mitsuomi's with all this talk of True Warrior and all, but again, I think it will take a different turn somewhere. There also seems to be a deeper connection between the past and present arc than we previously realized. Then and now, there's the inclusion of the demon exorcists--"those who become demons in order to destroy demons"--and the notion of the True Warrior which has a similar description. (Not sure of Dougen's description in the present however.) Could Kagiroi be an exorcist too in his own right? And who could forget "exorcist" Tawara? Or what if the real demon or "monster" in the present turns out to be Souhaku?

Heh. Just some uninformed speculation on my part. You have to admit though, the story was certainly much simpler when F wasn't around.

jacko · Post by **jacko** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 12:52 am

I don't really like Mitsuomi, not because of who he was, but what his interpretation of "law and order" philosophy, and him becoming almost as power hungry as Dougen was. Not that I like Maya that much either, because I think she is equally at fault for what happened to Shin.

infil · Post by **infil** » Sat Jul 10, 2004 9:20 pm

The funny thing about this is that a lot of this relies upon opinion and speculation. For instance, i don't think of Mitsuomi as a bad guy at all. He is most definately harsh. Though the Jyuukenbuu (whatever) are considered the heroes, i actually consider Maya to be the worst (semi-evil) character in the story. She is spoilt arrogant and utterly selfish. Everything that she says and does is about her feelings and her goals, from the very beggining of the series including the flash backs, at th exclusion of others. For instance, teh group only exists for her possible vengeance etc. when it was her actions that actually caused a lot of the events to happen. The whole Katana instance and her giving Shin the sword and Shins subsequent madness are all results of her actions. Maya is the classicx blame shifting character and i believe that at some point this will come out in the story that she has to take responsibility for her actions. As to the Mitsuomi factor i believe that OhGreat is setting up a show down that will result in Mitsuomi trying to protect Maya from F and this will result in him dying, thus leaving Maya to mourn his loss and come to self realistion about herself and many events that have transpired. From a writing point of view, all the clues are there leading to this conclusion, OhGreat has used some big mainstream plot elements, but then again he could surprise me and take it in a different direction all together.

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