I mean, they're both okay, but I think they lack something called personality and character - I like 'em in some way, but they just haven't got enough style to be the leading chars of such a stylish manga like TT, I think Maya would have been a better choice for that.
Imho, the manga where Maya has got the most 'screentime' are way better than the newer ones where Aya & Soichiro lead the show - what do you think about that?
Just why are Aya & Soichiro the main chars?
Moderator: FuguTabetai
i agree
maya is far more developed as a character than any other in this manga, although the whole shin-mitsuomi episode ruined any sense in the manga; i still dont think there is no good enough reason for maya to hate mits as much as she does now.
aya is getting better, still a bit shallow but her fight with maya made me think more of here as a real person
nagi sux (why does everybody hate him)
masataka rocks ( why does everybody love him)
bob is cool
nagi mama hot
come to think of it
shin may have been an even better lead
he's totally psycho and knows it.
i dunno, i just think Oh great needs to stop being so indecisive! that awesome artist bastard
maya is far more developed as a character than any other in this manga, although the whole shin-mitsuomi episode ruined any sense in the manga; i still dont think there is no good enough reason for maya to hate mits as much as she does now.
aya is getting better, still a bit shallow but her fight with maya made me think more of here as a real person
nagi sux (why does everybody hate him)
masataka rocks ( why does everybody love him)
bob is cool
nagi mama hot
come to think of it
shin may have been an even better lead
he's totally psycho and knows it.
i dunno, i just think Oh great needs to stop being so indecisive! that awesome artist bastard
That's correct, I think she hasn't got a reason at all to fight Mitsuomi - I mean, they were at love, and Mitsuomi actually did not even kill him as she said before.zombi3d wrote:i agree
maya is far more developed as a character than any other in this manga, although the whole shin-mitsuomi episode ruined any sense in the manga; i still dont think there is no good enough reason for maya to hate mits as much as she does now.
aya is getting better, still a bit shallow but her fight with maya made me think more of here as a real person
Well, I don't think Nagi sucks (okay, perhaps I think so, but my girlfriend's gonna kill me if I say that aloud), and Masataka is indeed more likeable than Nagi, but well, he's got a small dick, and so he can't be the male hero.nagi sux (why does everybody hate him)
masataka rocks ( why does everybody love him)
bob is cool
nagi mama hot
Actually, I must say that Shin is some cool guy who just came a little bit short in the whole story...come to think of it
shin may have been an even better lead
he's totally psycho and knows it.
I hope he'll decide that Nagi & Aya are a less interesting couple than Mitsuomi & Maya and put the latter in front again *g*i dunno, i just think Oh great needs to stop being so indecisive! that awesome artist bastard
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EndersChaos
- Yuurei
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- Joined: Sat Nov 22, 2003 8:44 am
Defense for Nagi and Aya
I completely disagree with you saying everyone hates Nagi and Aya. Nagi and Aya are my favorite characters right behind Maya and Mitsuomi. If you just label them off so quickly to be crap characters I feel you are making a large mistake.
When you look at the similarities between these two pairs you cannot but see how they are almost reincarnations of Maya's and Mitsuomi's past selves.
Aya, just as Maya did, feels shadowed by her older sibling, wanting to be noticed by many or one particular person but instead not. In order to combat this she, just as Maya did, decides to become as strong as she can.
Nagi is very similar to Mitsuomi's past self, although it may not be immidiately noticable due to Nagi's punk attitude compared to Mitsuomi's respectful. Both however were more introverted with their true problems, instead of facing their true fears directly they chose to indirectly face or fight them. Nagi does this by trying to ignore his past, while Mitsuomi chose to sleep with his problem's girlfriend, thus showing his defiance.
My true concern is not that a few of you dislike Nagi and Aya however, but that you feel that everyone else automatically agrees with your opinion.
I say lets just leave the story writing and decisions to the ones who have been doing an amazing job so far, and we should trust them instead of complain the moment they shift focus temporarily. Give them some time before you lose faith.
When you look at the similarities between these two pairs you cannot but see how they are almost reincarnations of Maya's and Mitsuomi's past selves.
Aya, just as Maya did, feels shadowed by her older sibling, wanting to be noticed by many or one particular person but instead not. In order to combat this she, just as Maya did, decides to become as strong as she can.
Nagi is very similar to Mitsuomi's past self, although it may not be immidiately noticable due to Nagi's punk attitude compared to Mitsuomi's respectful. Both however were more introverted with their true problems, instead of facing their true fears directly they chose to indirectly face or fight them. Nagi does this by trying to ignore his past, while Mitsuomi chose to sleep with his problem's girlfriend, thus showing his defiance.
My true concern is not that a few of you dislike Nagi and Aya however, but that you feel that everyone else automatically agrees with your opinion.
I say lets just leave the story writing and decisions to the ones who have been doing an amazing job so far, and we should trust them instead of complain the moment they shift focus temporarily. Give them some time before you lose faith.
Mhhh, I already realized that Aya & Nagi are quite similar to the young Maya & Mitsuomi, but nevertheless I think that they both just lack a bit personality...
Aya definitely isn't a crap-character, but Nagi for me is just some guy who likes posing around without really knowing what all the fighting is all about - he likes to prove himself to be the best, but in my opinion, he isn't able to carry the story, just because he's quite dumb (again, in my opinion, I don't know how others feel about that).
What I like about Maya is that she's strong without having a special gift, that makes her outstanding in comparison to the other main characters - her dedication to what she's doing brought her that far, thats admirable.
But, again, the manga became weaker after volume seven... I don't know what it is, but there are so many new characters I just don't find likeable... I got nothing against Soichiro's mum, but these new villains imho lack class and personality, they seem to have been thrown in as some kind of cannon-fodder, if you know what I mean.
On the other hand, this is what makes TT that outstanding - there are lots of characters with lots of problems, and they solve them in their own, mostly unique way, nevertheless, I somehow miss some of the others having a bigger part: where are Masataka, Bob, Chiaki, Maya and the commitee members like Isuzu or Sagara? I think, they've got a better introduction and a better defined personality than the chars who are shaping the story right now.
Aya definitely isn't a crap-character, but Nagi for me is just some guy who likes posing around without really knowing what all the fighting is all about - he likes to prove himself to be the best, but in my opinion, he isn't able to carry the story, just because he's quite dumb (again, in my opinion, I don't know how others feel about that).
What I like about Maya is that she's strong without having a special gift, that makes her outstanding in comparison to the other main characters - her dedication to what she's doing brought her that far, thats admirable.
But, again, the manga became weaker after volume seven... I don't know what it is, but there are so many new characters I just don't find likeable... I got nothing against Soichiro's mum, but these new villains imho lack class and personality, they seem to have been thrown in as some kind of cannon-fodder, if you know what I mean.
On the other hand, this is what makes TT that outstanding - there are lots of characters with lots of problems, and they solve them in their own, mostly unique way, nevertheless, I somehow miss some of the others having a bigger part: where are Masataka, Bob, Chiaki, Maya and the commitee members like Isuzu or Sagara? I think, they've got a better introduction and a better defined personality than the chars who are shaping the story right now.
Re: Just why are Aya & Soichiro the main chars?
Author fiat. The story goes as the author wishes until the publisher doesn't want to print it or the story is done.Isuzu wrote:I mean, they're both okay, but I think they lack something called personality and character - I like 'em in some way, but they just haven't got enough style to be the leading chars of such a stylish manga like TT, I think Maya would have been a better choice for that.
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FuguTabetai
- Shifu
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- Location: Tokyo, Japan
- Contact:
I personally really liked how earlier, even the "evil" characters were shown to have some depth behind them - particularly Sagara, Mitsuomi, and Isuzu. (Ryuuzaki was just an ass.) Anyway, there doesn't seem to be as much depth and motivation behind the "F" people - why did they join Mitsuomi in his revolt against the older generation? And Tsumuji Mataza (F) is just turning out to be really sadistic with no redeeming qualities...
fugu
fugu
FuguTabetai wrote:I personally really liked how earlier, even the "evil" characters were shown to have some depth behind them - particularly Sagara, Mitsuomi, and Isuzu. (Ryuuzaki was just an ass.) Anyway, there doesn't seem to be as much depth and motivation behind the "F" people - why did they join Mitsuomi in his revolt against the older generation? And Tsumuji Mataza (F) is just turning out to be really sadistic with no redeeming qualities...
fugu
That's exactly what I meant - but I don't regard Mitsuomi as 'evil' in the classic way, Maya too isn a classic hero - all the good / evil stuff in TT is much more meddled together than in most other manga, which makes it more interesting to follow - the different chars have got their personal motivation, their weak points (just the thought of Isuzu's real looks makes me shiver *g*) and their loyalties, which is closer to real life than in manga like DragonBall, where the good guys always save the world which the bad guys want to conquer or even destroy.
Just one thing I don't really get - why does Mitsuomi revolt against the elders? Because he wants to be in charge of things?
i reread the fight between shin and mits
oh great made it so fast and insignificant probably most of the ppl missed it or at least didnt realize its importance:
while beating down shin, mits thinks that shin is weak, then so no, he has become stronger, then he says he understands why shin was so swallowed up by the power, and proceeds to beat him when the nurse chick jumps on shin etc etc....
ie, he has been consumed by his strength
thats not how i precieve shin when i first saw him
it just doesnt fit his personality the way the authour presented him at first
i actually thought he was the hero once he stepped in the bowling alley in that leather getup with that sad look on his face....
oh great made it so fast and insignificant probably most of the ppl missed it or at least didnt realize its importance:
while beating down shin, mits thinks that shin is weak, then so no, he has become stronger, then he says he understands why shin was so swallowed up by the power, and proceeds to beat him when the nurse chick jumps on shin etc etc....
ie, he has been consumed by his strength
thats not how i precieve shin when i first saw him
it just doesnt fit his personality the way the authour presented him at first
i actually thought he was the hero once he stepped in the bowling alley in that leather getup with that sad look on his face....
Hmmm...speaking of Shin, do you guys think there's some foreshadowing with the way he was consumed by his power in the end? Maybe something in relation to Aya? Or perhaps in relation to Nagi? I can't remember exactly, but didn't Nagi's mom say something in relation to that to Masataka's dad before they "forced" Nagi to open the Dragon Gate? That was in vol8 if I remember correctly.
I think the dragon he wielded consumed himkujoe wrote:Hmmm...speaking of Shin, do you guys think there's some foreshadowing with the way he was consumed by his power in the end? Maybe something in relation to Aya? Or perhaps in relation to Nagi? I can't remember exactly, but didn't Nagi's mom say something in relation to that to Masataka's dad before they "forced" Nagi to open the Dragon Gate? That was in vol8 if I remember correctly.
Like happened with Nagi his leg and his mum's eye and arm
I originally thought Souichiro's mom lost her arm to her power, but there has been some indication that his dad may be the one who did it. Just hints, really.Banorac wrote:I think the dragon he wielded consumed him
Like happened with Nagi his leg and his mum's eye and arm
As for Shin, I see his backstory as a cautionary tale for both Aya and Souichiro, two people who possess potentially self-destructive supernatural powers. Mitsuomi's current situation (where he is able to fight with possible-superhuman prowess for a short time, but is thereafter disabled for a time) is another illustration of this. Mitsuomi and Shin both represent characters whose "gifts" turned into horrible burdens. I'd still like to see a little more about what's going on in Mitsuomi's head, though.
I wish that Masataka will become important (and strong) ! He is Mitsuomi's brother and he is (just a little) the rival of Nagi.....
I wish a flashback on him to know how he became a member of Juuken club (his 1st meeting with Maya) and why he has joined Maya team rather than the Mitsuomi Group
I wish a flashback on him to know how he became a member of Juuken club (his 1st meeting with Maya) and why he has joined Maya team rather than the Mitsuomi Group
Juken power
<img src=http://membres.lycos.fr/shenrenmue/jukenteam.jpg>
<img src=http://membres.lycos.fr/shenrenmue/jukenteam.jpg>
I agree that Tsumuji has little redeeming qualities. It's not clear why he is with F, aside from the obvious perks and being able to get away with murder and rape. Ishiyumi, at least, is loyal to Mitsuomi, in his way, and is at least reasonably 'decent'. And I always thought it was clear that Mitsuomi's motivation is in somehow protecting the martial arts world from corruption by 'mystic forces' which he believes would ultimately destroy everything and everyone (which was why he is disdainful of Nagi but tried to recruit Bob), like how Shin was destroyed by his Dragon Eye. To this end, he saw his father and the elders as being too weak to accomplish this. Furthermore, he only has less than 3 years to accomplish his goal, making hhim understandably ruthless in some situations. But this explanation is debatable because the F group seems to be composed of some people with Red Feather genes...
Maya's motivation for setting herself against Mitsuomi is not clear, though I believe it's not because she thinks Mitsuomi drove Shin to suicide. It's not clear whether she believes in the opposite ideals or whether she thinks the Takayanagi Clan is too hard-handed or whether she has ulterior motives.
Agent Wax
Maya's motivation for setting herself against Mitsuomi is not clear, though I believe it's not because she thinks Mitsuomi drove Shin to suicide. It's not clear whether she believes in the opposite ideals or whether she thinks the Takayanagi Clan is too hard-handed or whether she has ulterior motives.
Agent Wax
Or maybe it's got something to do with Shin's golden age of a "fighting paradise". Mitsuomi's reign isn't exactly that, you know -- more like a time when extortionists and tyrants ruled with fear. Mitsuomi has this view of some sort of order within the martial arts world that Maya probably didn't like. Speaking from their point of view, Shin's time must've been more "fun" and free.
Maybe that's why Maya continues to lead the Jyuukenbu and why Masataka joined her rather than Mitsuomi's group.
Maybe that's why Maya continues to lead the Jyuukenbu and why Masataka joined her rather than Mitsuomi's group.
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Bunshichi Lover
- Yuurei
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:27 pm
Well...
...I didn't like Aya at first, thought she was cute, sexy, and all that good stuff, but naturally found myself attracted to the more strong and commanding Maya, but then I started talking to my friend, and roleplaying her.
And in doing so, I had to go back and read bits and pieces of the manga over and over again to get to her know her better and perfect her personality and style.
I basically got shown just how deep a character she could be, because despite the whole "I must be with Souichirou." and "I must become strong." thing, after reading the entire past story arc, you've also gotta understand that she has that whole dragon's eye thing, and no she's not "Shin" which is probably why she isn't dealing with it the same way that he did.
She's a girl living in her sister's shadow. Hell, even the man she loves, loves her sister, not to mention a lot of you guys like her sister better too. That has really gotta suck for her, and being the way that I am, I'm just going to root for the underdog. ,v,,
Also from reading some of the prior posts, it wouldn't be a Mitsuomi/Shin thing that ends up happening, it would be more of a Maya/Shin thing, even though that doesn't fit well either.
...I didn't like Aya at first, thought she was cute, sexy, and all that good stuff, but naturally found myself attracted to the more strong and commanding Maya, but then I started talking to my friend, and roleplaying her.
And in doing so, I had to go back and read bits and pieces of the manga over and over again to get to her know her better and perfect her personality and style. I basically got shown just how deep a character she could be, because despite the whole "I must be with Souichirou." and "I must become strong." thing, after reading the entire past story arc, you've also gotta understand that she has that whole dragon's eye thing, and no she's not "Shin" which is probably why she isn't dealing with it the same way that he did.
She's a girl living in her sister's shadow. Hell, even the man she loves, loves her sister, not to mention a lot of you guys like her sister better too. That has really gotta suck for her, and being the way that I am, I'm just going to root for the underdog. ,v,,
Also from reading some of the prior posts, it wouldn't be a Mitsuomi/Shin thing that ends up happening, it would be more of a Maya/Shin thing, even though that doesn't fit well either.
You know, nowhere does it even imply that Masataka has a small dick. The only time a reference to him having a small dick is in his dream. Other than that, there is no evidence to suggest it.Isuzu wrote:Well, I don't think Nagi sucks (okay, perhaps I think so, but my girlfriend's gonna kill me if I say that aloud), and Masataka is indeed more likeable than Nagi, but well, he's got a small dick, and so he can't be the male hero.
And god damnit, I still think Masataka is the main character, I mean, he starts out the series as the narrator.
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Bunshichi Lover
- Yuurei
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:27 pm
"Other good stuff"??!!besides...they are asian! They make up for what they lack in the pants with the other good stuff they got! ;x
That time Aya accidentally grabbed it. Looked pretty small, compared to Aya's hand. Of course, we don't know whether it was in 'full bloom' at the time.You know, nowhere does it even imply that Masataka has a small dick. The only time a reference to him having a small dick is in his dream. Other than that, there is no evidence to suggest it.
And men are definitely more obssessed with penis size than women...
Agent Wax
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Bunshichi Lover
- Yuurei
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I agree, but having spent my life surrounded by Asian men, I fail to see how that is attributable to race, culture, or genetics. Granted, Masataka will probably be more receptive and sensitive to Aya's 'needs' than Nagi. Whether a man makes a good lover or a selfish one is entirely dependent on his personality and character.there is more to sex than just sticking it in...
Agent Wax
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Bunshichi Lover
- Yuurei
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- Joined: Wed Aug 27, 2003 7:27 pm
ack
sorry for the super late post but I was on vacation in canada with *Sob* no internet access for a month... -_- o well, at least I didn't really have to wait that long to read new manga ^_^
anywayz...
ionno, I happen to like masataka way more than nagi... I'm not sure why, maybe it's because he was the narrator at first or maybe he just thinks a little bit more normal than mister power hungry freak who knows nothing and has to who rely on his friend's judgement and advice (like bob kicking masa and bun away from aya in vol 4 when she needed to be carried away) in order to be closer to a girl (aya).
and actually maya is probably up against mits because mits kinda absorbs all the other groups and maya finally realized at the end that the only thing shin left that was truly his was the jyuukenbu... (hey, the sword was passed down and was actually maya's before shin's and shin's motercycle was owned by some other people in terms of spare parts and stuff lolz...) (katana clan wasn't made by himself alone but jyuukenbu was) and so she fights to keep the jyuukenbu alive.
masa probably didn't join mitsumi's group because he followed his father out of the company and his father told him to have nothing to do with mitsuomi... but he seems to want his brother's praise *shrugs*
imo, the best char is...
Shin!
the unbeatable psychopath who looks pretty cool in the darkness as a demon with glowing eyes. ooooo XD
I'm kinda split between maya, bun, sugano for second place... they're all fun chars
masataka would be one of those tied for second if he showed up a bit more in fighting things... o well (chapter 56 kinda skyrocketed asshat's ranking ^_^)
and maybe it's just me but the best char pairing imo is Shin-maya!
yes, everyone is going... EWWWWW!!! incest!!! but Shin really did sacrifice anything for maya and maya just didn't know what she had until it was gone. sometimes I re-read the past arc and hope shin doesn't die (I know. I'm nuts. I also sometimes re-watch the end of evangelion and hope rei doesn't die. -_- *cries*). too bad it doesn't happen lolz
anywayz, you're all tired from reading this long post (you did read it all right? no? argh...) so I'll stop rambling now.
anywayz...
ionno, I happen to like masataka way more than nagi... I'm not sure why, maybe it's because he was the narrator at first or maybe he just thinks a little bit more normal than mister power hungry freak who knows nothing and has to who rely on his friend's judgement and advice (like bob kicking masa and bun away from aya in vol 4 when she needed to be carried away) in order to be closer to a girl (aya).
and actually maya is probably up against mits because mits kinda absorbs all the other groups and maya finally realized at the end that the only thing shin left that was truly his was the jyuukenbu... (hey, the sword was passed down and was actually maya's before shin's and shin's motercycle was owned by some other people in terms of spare parts and stuff lolz...) (katana clan wasn't made by himself alone but jyuukenbu was) and so she fights to keep the jyuukenbu alive.
masa probably didn't join mitsumi's group because he followed his father out of the company and his father told him to have nothing to do with mitsuomi... but he seems to want his brother's praise *shrugs*
imo, the best char is...
Shin!
the unbeatable psychopath who looks pretty cool in the darkness as a demon with glowing eyes. ooooo XD
I'm kinda split between maya, bun, sugano for second place... they're all fun chars
masataka would be one of those tied for second if he showed up a bit more in fighting things... o well (chapter 56 kinda skyrocketed asshat's ranking ^_^)
and maybe it's just me but the best char pairing imo is Shin-maya!
yes, everyone is going... EWWWWW!!! incest!!! but Shin really did sacrifice anything for maya and maya just didn't know what she had until it was gone. sometimes I re-read the past arc and hope shin doesn't die (I know. I'm nuts. I also sometimes re-watch the end of evangelion and hope rei doesn't die. -_- *cries*). too bad it doesn't happen lolz
anywayz, you're all tired from reading this long post (you did read it all right? no? argh...) so I'll stop rambling now.
Actually in my case, it was the other way around. It was Masataka at first who kinda rubbed me off in the wrong way. I can't explain exactly why, but I guess it stems from him being quite well off and "normal"--like he's trying to be interesting to me when the result is the opposite.
Hell, Nagi and Bob are not exactly that good either. They're the type of punks you'd love to hate and they're certainly flawed. Nagi and Bob's characterization is usually presented as dark and negative, but I see such behavior as being symptomatic of wacked personal issues that they were not able to handle or address.
I think I'm more interested in the character flaws that define a character rather than the strengths. I find it more interesting in seeing how such flaws are coped with.
To each his/her own I guess.
Hell, Nagi and Bob are not exactly that good either. They're the type of punks you'd love to hate and they're certainly flawed. Nagi and Bob's characterization is usually presented as dark and negative, but I see such behavior as being symptomatic of wacked personal issues that they were not able to handle or address.
I think I'm more interested in the character flaws that define a character rather than the strengths. I find it more interesting in seeing how such flaws are coped with.
To each his/her own I guess.