Fight 91

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Fight 91

Post by MrProphet » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:43 am

It's that time of the month, so give it a warm welcome to our favourite Aya whore! 8)

Image

Fight 91 will be out in 2 days. 8)

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Post by shouki » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:06 pm

Okay, with an Aya, naked apart from a modern looking jacket, with her nipples pierced with an old-style hair ornament. Fine...

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Post by kk1 » Fri Feb 17, 2006 12:46 pm

ouch...looks like the flashback continues

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Post by FuguTabetai » Fri Feb 17, 2006 2:05 pm

dammit, I've got too much to do for this to come out now. :) I finally got a beta out of a "for-fun" programming project I've been working on, so now I'll translate Dogs, then move on to this, then Hells Angels. And try to push out a new GMAO update before I move.

It is nice to have TenTen around though, after such a long time without any. If anyone finds good scans, please let me know where they are at.

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Post by Sleepy Weasel » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:21 pm

that looks like it hurts.... wheres maya from back in the day?!

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Feb 17, 2006 4:47 pm

Is there supposed to be a "Maya from back in the day"?

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Post by Sleepy Weasel » Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:06 pm

well it seems everyone has to have an ancestor. and maya is aya's older sister. If aya is there the odds of Maya being there would be good.

but you are right she does not "have" to be there. Would just be cool if she was >_<

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Feb 17, 2006 5:32 pm

Well, Aya Natsume is the ancestor of both Aya and Maya Natsume. Or did you imply that then Aya is connected to now Aya? 8)

By that logic, the John Smiths of history form one big happy family. 8)

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Post by Sleepy Weasel » Fri Feb 17, 2006 8:42 pm

I implied i wanna see Maya :)

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Post by Hollowshingami » Fri Feb 17, 2006 9:14 pm

If Maya does indeed show up in this distant past arc, it'll be interesting to see what she's like.

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Post by protocol7 » Fri Feb 17, 2006 11:29 pm

well don't give a shit about maya. more hoe aya!

Hell Yea!!!

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Post by MrProphet » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:28 am

What the hell? Don't disrespect Maya! Or she'll "disrespect" you. :twisted:

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Post by protocol7 » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:35 am

man i like aya better especially hoe aya there is no disrespect in saying that i dont like her relax.

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Post by zangetsu » Sat Feb 18, 2006 12:33 pm

Umm, what the heck is Aya doing with that Crustation? Talk about your bad case of crabs.
Image

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Post by Hollowshingami » Sat Feb 18, 2006 1:35 pm

I don't think that's Aya. I think they are just women Aya is passing by while she is walking.

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Post by EliteF22 » Sat Feb 18, 2006 9:59 pm

Awesome, looks like a bunch of explaining is done. Seems like Kago has the ability to view a creatures memories. Ancestor Aya seems to be a total seductress. But where did she get that lolipop at the end?

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Post by MrProphet » Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:17 pm

Here's the chapter via HTTP:

http://mrprophet.com/temp/v15c91.zip

Good stuff. Ichiyou is one cute kid. 8)

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Post by kk1 » Sat Feb 18, 2006 11:49 pm

Yaaawn, I bet this is going to be really interesting once we get the translation but not even one panel of present day action, or any action really. Oh well I guess naked great grandma Aya is better than nothing. Though that panel of kiddy porn is a little disturbing, I'll never understand the Japanese fetish for loli-stuff. Again have fun with the editing DC.

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Post by Hollowshingami » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:06 am

I'm sure this will make sense down the line but, I wish Oh Great would pick up the pace.

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Post by kujoe » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:03 am

I do find these current chapters interesting—especially with new characters such as Aya's ancestor and Ichiyou—but I'm wondering if there's going to be a day when I'll have to regard this as "past arc 2."

Just from browsing the raws, I'm figuring this chapter gives us a glimpse of what their lives (and the families) were like long ago...? Nothing major yet besides a few explanations here and there, it seems. There still seems to be some fleshing out to do before we get to the climactic point as well. At the very least, that's what I think based on the current vibe of the story so far.

Anyway, here I am—patiently waiting for some translated info. :wink:

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Post by shouki » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:35 am

Hah, Oh Great! sure likes to mess with our minds.

We had a certain amount of discussion last time about what past Aya could have gotten up to and how it might have related to the Aya briefly shown alongside the sequence when Oda was killed. Well, last chapter we found out that past Aya was creating prostitues from bugs and this chapter we find out even her "real" body doesn't look look her true age.

Yep, the Natsume secret technique of changing body age turns up again. Kabane guessed her real age was 30 or 40, but past Aya's true age, as Shoujou tells Kabane in this chapter, is in fact the same as Ichiyou - nine years old.

We find this out after Aya and Shoujou start talking dirty and Ichiyou orders the group to be in separate rooms, him and "onee-chan" in one and Shoujou and Kabane in another.

So no wonder past Aya is evil in a playful way - kids don't really develop morals until they go through puberty.


Anyway, as for the story itself, as far as I can tell, the Red Feathers are out to kill Souhaku, who's secured in Osaka Castle.

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Post by MrProphet » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:46 am

Wow, she is just 9 years old?!

I wonder how she knows so much about sex and seduction then. Of course, she'd been around a brothel for some time, but kids don't generally get interested in this kind of activity untill puberty.

Yet Aya struts her stuff out like a true professional? What gives?

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Post by kujoe » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:08 am

Whoa. Past Aya is also 9 years old?

Wow. Just when I thought Ichiyou was another Nagi kid who has a thing for older women...! 8)

Okay, stupid joke. *ahem* :P

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Post by shouki » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:09 am

MrProphet wrote:Wow, she is just 9 years old?!

I wonder how she knows so much about sex and seduction then. Of course, she'd been around a brothel for some time, but kids don't generally get interested in this kind of activity untill puberty.

Yet Aya struts her stuff out like a true professional? What gives?
I think Aya is treating it like a game. A rather more advanced version of girls trying to act like adults. Except of course, Aya has an adult's body (currently). I don't think she's interested in sex herself, but probably finds it facinating.

Since she's also a Dragon Eye user, I don't think it'd be hard for her to become a "pro" quickly. Might also explain why she's rather scary. On the other hand, she seems to be handling Reiki better than a young Shin could.


btw, as far as I can tell, the group set out 3 months ago - in the autumn (hence the falling leaves in the flashback sections when there's snow in the current sections). I think the young guy playing Go (we don't see his face) is the current Takayanagi head.

I think part of their mission was to send Souhaku a warning - hence the box of crabs with the crest. Looks like the father of the kid picking the crabs was forced to be "arrow fodder" in an attack on the local castle, died and became food for the crabs - and was later picked up by the kid. Looks like Aya picked this up with her Dragon's Eye and set up a spell so that Souhaku would see it when he picked up the crab - followed by a "we're coming to get you" message.

I think. (I can't read everything)

Anyway, Aya shows a lot of interesting uses of the Dragon's Eye in this chapter, as well as multiple acts of random cruelty.

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Post by MrProphet » Sun Feb 19, 2006 9:47 am

I see. It makes sense now how Aya is not ashamed of constantly getting naked around her comrades. She is just too young to get it...

And who's the old dude playing go with Takayanagi? By that picture of the 12 families I assume he is one of them, right?

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Post by shouki » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:11 am

MrProphet wrote:I see. It makes sense now how Aya is not ashamed of constantly getting naked around her comrades. She is just too young to get it...
When is she "getting naked around her comrades"? In this chapter, she is changing in a separte room to Kabane and Shoujou - and kicked Ichiyou out too.

And who's the old dude playing go with Takayanagi? By that picture of the 12 families I assume he is one of them, right?
Seems so. Most of the group looks like a freak show... though at least Ichiyou looks fairly cool with those things around his forearms.

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Post by MrProphet » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:47 am

shouki wrote:When is she "getting naked around her comrades"? In this chapter, she is changing in a separte room to Kabane and Shoujou - and kicked Ichiyou out too.
I thought it was the same room. Maybe I was just confused by the image transposition. And didn't Ichiyou just storm out on his own?
Seems so. Most of the group looks like a freak show... though at least Ichiyou looks fairly cool with those things around his forearms.
I say that THIS

Image

is so much more badass than THIS 8)

Image

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Post by shouki » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:05 pm

MrProphet wrote:
shouki wrote:When is she "getting naked around her comrades"? In this chapter, she is changing in a separte room to Kabane and Shoujou - and kicked Ichiyou out too.
I thought it was the same room. Maybe I was just confused by the image transposition. And didn't Ichiyou just storm out on his own?
To quote from my first post today:
We find this out after Aya and Shoujou start talking dirty and Ichiyou orders the group to be in separate rooms, him and "onee-chan" in one and Shoujou and Kabane in another.
On the page where Kabane is reacting in shock to Aya being 9, you can see behind the near full frontal nude of Aya the silhouette of Ichiyou outside (sneezing in the cold). So you can tell that Aya is inside the room Ichiyou is sitting in front of 2 pages earlier.

On the other hand, Aya is nearly "falling out" when she drops by the two Go players. If Ichiyou (as ranking member despite his age) hadn't ordered the group into separate rooms, I'll leave it to your imagination as to whether she would still have stripped off. (She doesn't like Ichiyou coming near her so it's not surprising he was kicked out. I hope she at least let him back in afterwards otherwise he'd probably freeze to death...)

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Post by FuguTabetai » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:07 pm

kujoe wrote:I do find these current chapters interesting—especially with new characters such as Aya's ancestor and Ichiyou—but I'm wondering if there's going to be a day when I'll have to regard this as "past arc 2."
I'm calling it the "Ancient Arc". But that's just what I'm using to prefix the character names with.
kujoe wrote: Anyway, here I am—patiently waiting for some translated info. :wink:
I'll probably get a translation out later in the week.

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Post by shouki » Sun Feb 19, 2006 12:50 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:
kujoe wrote:I do find these current chapters interesting—especially with new characters such as Aya's ancestor and Ichiyou—but I'm wondering if there's going to be a day when I'll have to regard this as "past arc 2."
I'm calling it the "Ancient Arc". But that's just what I'm using to prefix the character names with.
Hmm, shame it's kinda inbetween the end of the Sengoku Jidai era and the start of the Tokugawa period- since "Sengoku arc" and "Tokugawa arc" don't quite fit the bill. "Osaka arc" would be kinda missleading (doesn't imply it's a past arc). "Medieval" might be a bit more appropriate than "ancient" though - particularly since some events in the TJTG world happened ~2000 years ago.


Anyway, looks like this arc will focus on the Red Feathers / Takayanagi trying to stop Souhaku from continuously causing wars, and attacking Osaka Castle as part of this. Personally, I hope this arc lasts for a while so we can see some kick-ass action in a medieval Japan setting.

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Post by EliteF22 » Sun Feb 19, 2006 5:07 pm

That short old guy looked to me like the ancestor of Kagiroi. Notice the same squat stature and big bulging nose as the Kagiroi guy we were first introduced to. '

If they are indeed going after Souhaku, its interesting in that in the present most of the red feathers don't like him either. But he made it sound like the dream of reuniting the blood was universal among the red feathers. I guess Souhaku has been trying to oppose Takayanagi for a long time.

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Post by protocol7 » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:45 pm

9 OH GREAT knows how to surprise lol.well it seems that aya was really just messing wiht the people lol.

never want to meet a nine year old like that though.can u say prison lol.

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Post by Hollowshingami » Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:55 pm

Can't say I'm really all that surprised though.....

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Post by protocol7 » Sun Feb 19, 2006 11:11 pm

with all kago's talk of reuniting red feathers and also inoe calling him the "hope of red feathers" in the past he seems to still be enemies of the rf.

thinking back kago in volume 14 said the "his attempt failed again".Is this kago and the kago from the past the same person.it may sound far fetched but i will admit it might not surprise me.

for 2000 yrs though he has been trying to "reunite the lost blood".then again this may be speculation he may be on their side in the end anyway.nagi is so much more likable now in this form though.Instead of all that you are my general talk. :wink:

aya is 9 lol that still amkes me laugh oh great really know how to think outside the box!!!

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Post by kk1 » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:11 am

protocol7 wrote:with all kago's talk of reuniting red feathers and also inoe calling him the "hope of red feathers" in the past he seems to still be enemies of the rf.

thinking back kago in volume 14 said the "his attempt failed again".Is this kago and the kago from the past the same person.it may sound far fetched but i will admit it might not surprise me.

!!!
That's what I was wondering, I thought that at first then thought the last chapter disproved it.
btw thanks for the quick rundown shouki, interesting stuff. Looks like Oh! Great is using this past arc like the first one, to show us how powers are used. It is actually very cool to see red feathers who have mastered and are properly using their powers. Amazing ancestor Aya has so fully mastered the dragon eye at such a young age( interesting explanation for her sadistic side, she's just a kid), and our Aya seems to be pretty good too, I wonder if girls are just better at using it than boys and that's why Shin couldn't handle it.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Mon Feb 20, 2006 3:08 am

Shouki wrote:
So no wonder past Aya is evil in a playful way - kids don't really develop morals until they go through puberty.
I don't agree. Puberty is when we develop principles and values which we take through to our adult lives. That is not the same as saying that children are entirely oblivious to the concepts of Right & Wrong. Most serial killers and violent sociopaths have a childhood history of cruelty to animals. Cruelty to other humans in children is a huge, flashing warning of present or latent psychopathy. Aya enjoys hurting others, that much is evident. But we should also keep in mind that characters in fiction are often have exaggerated emotional, intellectual and even sexual maturity, especially in a manga where an 18 year-old runs simultaneously a school, a multi-million dollar business empire, and a yakuza-ish association.

EliteF22 wrote:
If they are indeed going after Souhaku, its interesting in that in the present most of the red feathers don't like him either. But he made it sound like the dream of reuniting the blood was universal among the red feathers. I guess Souhaku has been trying to oppose Takayanagi for a long time.
I don't understand how someone who has gone so obviously rogue for so long could be allowed back in with the group. Some serious apologizing must have happened for the Kago family to have been let back into the fold in the present. Even if they thought the current Souhaku is a descendent, it was still only 500 years ago...

And from the 2 page spread:

1). That's Ishiyumi with the bow. And the guy with the spear and phallic hair is obviously Tsumuji.

2). The lady looks like the current Hotaru obasan.

3). Shyoujyou is probably the veiled, faceless guy.

4). I think the mohawked old man is Kagiroi. Can't make out what he's holding, but it's probably a bomb or a gun...

5). The pirate is obviously Wani.

6). I think the squat monk fellow with the ugly nose is Kabuto, who runs the other White Feathers for Takayanagi.

7). That leaves the clean-cut samurai as Mawari.
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Post by Hollowshingami » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:03 am

Wasn't the character who appeared as cutting off Nobunaga's head, who looks exactly like Souhaku, referred to as Akechi? Could it be that the Kago family has been controlled by Akechi for all this time? There's really no evidence, though. Although, the fact they both look the same and dress the same, should be a dead giveaway. Or it could be that Souhaku could be masquerading as Akechi, who knows.

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Post by Kyu1982 » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:43 am

I think Souhaku = Akechi Mitsuhide.
I am wondering the relationship b/w Nobunaga and Takayanagi.
I think Takayanagi backed Nobunaga and won so many wars, but Souhaku killed Nobunaga, and caused more wars/taking power away from Takayanagi and other 11 main house.

In the real world, Akechi Mitsuhide lost and was killed by Toyotomi Hideyoshi. Among historians, Toyotomi Hideyoshi's main purpose is unknown, but there was possibility that Hideyoshi knew Akechi's move on Nobunaga, but did not do anything to protect Nobunaga, but still most believe see Toyotomi as royal servent and supporter of Nobunaga.
I think Oh Great is using this theory.(Hideyoshi and Akechi as one Alliance)

But I am wondering about Sohaku as Tenkai.
Nankobo Tenkai was known to be a supporter for Tokugawa clan and Ieyasu before the Osaka battle. So, there is a possibility that Sohaku has power on both Tokugawa and Toyotomi clan. Tenkai was known to live even after Osaka battle, so Sohaku might win the war against other 11 main family including Takayanagi and control other familys last 400 years until now for creating his ideal warrior with all the red feather power.

If Sohaku was defeated in the past, he wouldn't be here and causing this problems.

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Post by kk1 » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:33 pm

Agent_Wax wrote:Shouki wrote:
So no wonder past Aya is evil in a playful way - kids don't really develop morals until they go through puberty.
I don't agree. Puberty is when we develop principles and values which we take through to our adult lives. That is not the same as saying that children are entirely oblivious to the concepts of Right & Wrong. Most serial killers and violent sociopaths have a childhood history of cruelty to animals. Cruelty to other humans in children is a huge, flashing warning of present or latent psychopathy. Aya enjoys hurting others, that much is evident. But we should also keep in mind that characters in fiction are often have exaggerated emotional, intellectual and even sexual maturity, especially in a manga where an 18 year-old runs simultaneously a school, a multi-million dollar business empire, and a yakuza-ish association.

.
Yeah this reminds me of some Christian stories of Jesus before he was 12 that weren't included in the Bible(The Infancy Gospel of Thomas), where he would wither and even kill other children who did things like just bump into him and then make their parents blind when they complained. If a young child had that much power how can you possibly control them or discipline them, and considering how it corrupted Shin, Ancestor Aya doesn't seem all that different, especially when you consider she has the mentallity of a 9 year old.

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Post by MrProphet » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:19 pm

Hollowshingami wrote:Wasn't the character who appeared as cutting off Nobunaga's head, who looks exactly like Souhaku, referred to as Akechi? Could it be that the Kago family has been controlled by Akechi for all this time? There's really no evidence, though. Although, the fact they both look the same and dress the same, should be a dead giveaway. Or it could be that Souhaku could be masquerading as Akechi, who knows.
The point is that Kago (either Souhaku, or his lookalike ancestor) is masquerading as Akechi Mitsuhide, who was rumoured to have survived the battle of Yamasaki and went on to serve Tokugawa Ieyasu as "Bishop Tenkai".

So, right now it's: Kago masquerading as Akechi masquerading as Tenkai.
In the real world, Akechi Mitsuhide lost and was killed by Toyotomi Hideyoshi. Among historians, Toyotomi Hideyoshi's main purpose is unknown, but there was possibility that Hideyoshi knew Akechi's move on Nobunaga, but did not do anything to protect Nobunaga, but still most believe see Toyotomi as royal servent and supporter of Nobunaga.
I think Oh Great is using this theory.(Hideyoshi and Akechi as one Alliance)
When Akechi betrayed Nobunaga and killed him at Honnoji, both Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu (claiming to be loyal supporters of Oda) rushed to avenge Oda Nobunaga and kill Akechi. Toyotomi managed to do it first at Yamasaki.

Naturally, both of them looked first and foremost towards their own interest, but they kept it at bay when Oda was the head honcho. As soon as Oda died, both claimed his legacy. After a period of wars, Hideyoshi died and Tokugawa managed to destroy all of his opponents at Sekigahara and become the shogun.

And I don't think Oh!Great is claiming Akechi and Toyotomi are in cahoots. I think the action is taking place later on, when Toyotomi are defeated and Tokugawa rule the Osaka Castle. Since we know that Ono Tadaaki (Shoujou in disguise) was going to serve Tokugawa family and he is going to Osakajo, it is reasonable that Tokugawa do indeed control the castle. Which means that Kago/Akechi is serving the Tokugawa, not Toyotomi, as you suggest.

Which is supported by historical evidence (rumours, but quite prevalent) that Akechi was indeed Tenkai (and Tenkai served Tokugawa).

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Post by protocol7 » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:28 pm

once again for this period the posts become buried deep in japanese jargon.Almost beyond comprehension. 8) your posts are too hard to read i can't understand shit! Seriously you guys are too hardcore for me so i'll just read what i can and post what i understand.

from my standpoint i can tell the following:

1)i suspect that all the families are together since it wouldn't be called the 12 families if kago was excluded. it may just be kago does not approve of their methods.Or there may be some organisational differences but before the arc they said this was point that the famileis were together.I don't know much about sho haku be he can't sontrol moths and there are no branch families therefor aya must have helped him.

2)Aya is a very cruel individual.She's a sick child. I find the character refreshing but still you have to admit she sadistic.

and i suspect that the families work like the a shadow government pulling the strings of power like an invisible puppeter,much like kago does in the present.

the whole point that i want to know is for what purpose.
why!why!why!

:?:

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Post by Hollowshingami » Mon Feb 20, 2006 8:17 pm

You'll probably have to wait for Fight 92, or 93 or....etc., etc. Providing this distant past arc is a multi-volume affair like the first one. We'll find out eventually.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Mon Feb 20, 2006 10:40 pm

Layout of Osaka-jo:

http://www4.airnet.ne.jp/kmimu/castle/k ... _osaka.jpg

Play connect the dots.
"Swallow your food whole, fool! Do you not know that mastication makes you go blind?"

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Sleepy Weasel
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Post by Sleepy Weasel » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:39 am

well the past aya is holding reiki, that probley has a profound effect on her dragons eye and is why she is so mean with her ability, and so powerful (having little to no morals as a child). Her dragons eye is probley no different from shins or aya's, If either of them were allowed to have the sword growing up they would probley be in the same state.

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kujoe
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Post by kujoe » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:59 am

I probably sound like I'm getting ahead of myself when I'm asking this, but if Tenkai is Kago posing as Akechi, then where would the Takayanagi Clan possibly be during the Tokugawa era? Or perhaps, they were in power while at the same time oblivious to fact that Tenkai could be Kago? That is, if the scenario does indeed turn out like this...

It doesn't seem like they're the absolute top dog yet in this timeline—or are they?

YES. I am confused.

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MrProphet
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Post by MrProphet » Tue Feb 21, 2006 5:40 am

I think (key word here!) that Kago got hooked with with the Shogun and is somehow propagating policies that are beneficial to his goal (of uniting the blood in one), but are perhaps detrimental to the current families.

So, Takayanagi decides to send Kago a warning, by the means of the Natsume-Nagi-Shoujou-Kabane hit squad, that he should lay off and come back to the fold.

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kujoe
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Post by kujoe » Tue Feb 21, 2006 8:34 am

Oh okay. Hmmm.

Well, one thing I would also like to see is how the Nagi Clan were hated (or came to be hated..?) throughout the times. That piece of info doesn't seem to be demonstrated enough so far. We only see Aya keeping Ichiyou away from her... Or perhaps, they were just exagerrating?

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kk1
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Post by kk1 » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:03 pm

kujoe wrote:Oh okay. Hmmm.

Well, one thing I would also like to see is how the Nagi Clan were hated (or came to be hated..?) throughout the times. That piece of info doesn't seem to be demonstrated enough so far. We only see Aya keeping Ichiyou away from her... Or perhaps, they were just exagerrating?
Maybe she just doesn't like icky boys, she is just 9.

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kk1
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Post by kk1 » Tue Feb 21, 2006 12:09 pm

protocol7 wrote:once again for this period the posts become buried deep in japanese jargon.Almost beyond comprehension. 8) your posts are too hard to read i can't understand shit! Seriously you guys are too hardcore for me so i'll just read what i can and post what i understand.

the whole point that i want to know is for what purpose.
why!why!why!

:?:
Well I'm not speculating on anything until I get the translation, what's the point? This flashback is going to go on at least 1-2 more chapters so we might as well sit back and wait.

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