Chapter 45
Posted: Thu Apr 10, 2003 2:48 pm
...wow I really wasn't expecting that, but overall I thought that this was a really good chapter. Was it me, or did maya look really funky this chapter?
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I think 45 is a nice end to the fight as well - very unexpected. A good ending really... But makes me wonder why Maya holds so much animosity against Mitsuomi - she really needs to look at Shin's actions too... But, I guess people can be selectively blind...hitori wrote:I was withholding my comments on the fight between Shin and Mitsuomi that started in chap 44.
In the chap 44 thread, the general feeling was that of a disappointment, but I feel that to do justice to this segment, you need to read this finale along with the previous chapter.
Well, try reading the chap 44 and 45 together.
I think the seemingly slow ending of 44 was a setup for 45's events.
I love this manga...
Thanks again, Fugu.
Doushi -- it is something like "comrade" or "equal member of the group"...hitori wrote: BTW, I figured out the member level after Senpai.
It is, if read word by word, "The one born earlier than you", right? ^_^;;
Didn't want to give it away...
Doushi?FuguTabetai wrote: Doushi -- it is something like "comrade" or "equal member of the group"...
fugu
I totally concur. Except for the crying part. I came close, though not as close as when I read Vol 7 of Gantz.The best chapter this far..
It make me cry..
I've been wondering this myself. After all, Kuzunoha killed him, and it looked like Shin practically forced that needle in himself. I doubt Mitsuomi was going to just kill him if the fight had went on normally.FuguTabetai wrote: I think 45 is a nice end to the fight as well - very unexpected. A good ending really... But makes me wonder why Maya holds so much animosity against Mitsuomi - she really needs to look at Shin's actions too... But, I guess people can be selectively blind...
fugu
Maybe. Don't forget that Shin had to 'cheat' and use Kuzu as a decoy to get that attack off. That was pretty cheap, and I think Mitsuomi would have won if that didn't happen. And of course, Bunchishi wasn't fighting, he was gently trying to hold Shin back, otherwise he would have destroyed him! Tawara forever!!!!!standa-man wrote: and it looks like the discussion in another thread about who's strongest might be resolved since it seems that no reiki dragon eye shin beat up everyone in this chap.
What you have to remember is that many different people in the series have given their interpretations of how Shin's Dragon's Eye works: Tawara, Fu Chi'en, Takayanagi Dougen, and even Shin himself.MDVega wrote:Speaking of which, one volume ago, Tawara got Shin to give up the katana during their fight, and said something about not being able to use the Dragon Eye without that sword. But in this volume, Shin is using the Eye all the time. What's the deal with that?
I agree. Mitsuomi should be considered the winner, since Shin cheated.MDVega wrote:Maybe. Don't forget that Shin had to 'cheat' and use Kuzu as a decoy to get that attack off. That was pretty cheap, and I think Mitsuomi would have won if that didn't happen.
a bit off topic but where did u read/get vol 7 of Gantz?? I'm only on vol 1. ch.9...Agent Wax wrote: I totally concur. Except for the crying part. I came close, though not as close as when I read Vol 7 of Gantz.
In the end though they both really lost.Zhou wrote: I agree. Mitsuomi should be considered the winner, since Shin cheated.
It was never officially announced or anything like that (no generic high school confessions here), but I think the relationship's been developing throughout the whole past arc. To me it's in Ch 38 when Mitsuomi's challenging Maya to join the Jyuukenbu that their relationship becomes pretty clear.blackkenshi wrote:Ok got a question that might be off the topic but then again is related to what happens in chapter 45. When did Mitsuomi and Maya become boyfriend girlfriend cus Maya said the minute Mitsoumi killed Shin was the day she broke up with him or sumthin
Shin killed himself. It was probably out of guilt for what he did to Kuzonoha, but the fact is he ultimately decided to die with her. Nobody forced him. And Mitsuomi had himself went nuts during the match. Remember that the spectators wanted to stop the fight for fear someone would get killed. If Kuzunoha had not stepped in, it is likely that he may have killed Shin eventually. I think that what Maya ultimately could not forgive is not that Mitsuomi directly, physically 'killed' Shin, but that his throwing down of the gauntlet, and subsequently his ruthlessness in the fight, drove Shin to his desperation and finally, his end.I've been wondering this myself. After all, Kuzunoha killed him, and it looked like Shin practically forced that needle in himself. I doubt Mitsuomi was going to just kill him if the fight had went on normally.
I bought them. I bought vol 1 on a whim, and the very next day went back to the shop and picked up Vols. 2-5. Had some trouble finding 6 & 7, but my collection is currently up to date. Yes, it's that good.a bit off topic but where did u read/get vol 7 of Gantz?? I'm only on vol 1. ch.9...
Hmm. I always thought he started wearing it to look cool and perhaps to allow others to think that he is weak, giving them a sense of false security and confidence. The extent of his injuries at Tawara's hands were never made clear, but if they healed, they must have affected only the skin and tissue around the eye, and not the eyeball itself. The eyeball itself has little healing power. Extensive damage to it means you lose it. In that respect, you can conclude that Shin was very vain about his looks...And to blackkenshi, Shin took off his by the end ch 44 when they took the group picture. I suppose you could read some deeper meaning into the significance of the eyepatch, but nothing was mentioned explicitly about it in the manga. You could just as easily say, he took it off simply because his eye healed. He started wearing it after losing to Bunshichi.
hmm I'm not too good at answerin these types of q's but I'll try well what I think is, for Maya's case neways, that she wants to find someone to blame for Shin's death. Even though it was obvious tht Shin wanted to die, I don't think she was able to accept this. She still feels bad about her brother's death and she mentions that she wants to settle it with mitsuomi. I guess Maya feels bad if she's happy about Shin's death....Agent Wax wrote: Which brings me to this general question: What is it about some women that they can't seem to be happy unless they're miserable?
hmm I always though the eyepatch was to restrain Shin from usin his dragon eye? Cus in 1 of the chs. Maya sees that Shin saw Mitsuomi wit his good eye (?) but he blamed it on the dragon eye afterwards. To me, it seems like the patch is to discourage Shin from usin his eye but if he wanted to I'm sure the eyepatch would be of no useAgent Wax wrote: And in another light, the eyepatch allowed Shin to claim that he had a blindspot when he injured Mitsuomi. Without it, the story would have progressed differently...
Shin was wearing an eye patch because Tawara screwed up his eye.SynthTrance wrote: hmm I always though the eyepatch was to restrain Shin from usin his dragon eye? Cus in 1 of the chs. Maya sees that Shin saw Mitsuomi wit his good eye (?) but he blamed it on the dragon eye afterwards. To me, it seems like the patch is to discourage Shin from usin his eye but if he wanted to I'm sure the eyepatch would be of no use
i somewhat picked that up i think.. about maya saying shin could see the future and known about mitsuomi and stuff. think it was the part shin was talking about the rain drops, about knowing the rain drops but dont know what it all adds up toFuguTabetai wrote:Shin was wearing an eye patch because Tawara screwed up his eye.SynthTrance wrote: hmm I always though the eyepatch was to restrain Shin from usin his dragon eye? Cus in 1 of the chs. Maya sees that Shin saw Mitsuomi wit his good eye (?) but he blamed it on the dragon eye afterwards. To me, it seems like the patch is to discourage Shin from usin his eye but if he wanted to I'm sure the eyepatch would be of no use
I don't know that it ever got better - notice in chapter 45 when he gets the "eye flash" thing, only one eye is visible. He might have just taken the patch off.
Maya accuses Shin of knowing Mitsuomi was there - not because he was wearing the eye patch and couldn't see out of that eye, but because even though he could not see out of that eye, he can see the future. He should have at least known that was Mitsuomi, and furthermore, known what would happen in the overall scheme. She says as much. Maybe that didn't come through in my translation? (It was there though, and fairly clear.)
fugu
see, it came through in your translationyou... you can use the "dragon's eye". must have already known about what was going to happen yesterday. and if you knew... why... you must have known the horrible results that would happen... why!!
guess that answers maya's question clearlyIt's easy to just hear the sound of the rain. but to understand the meaning of each and every drop, i just cant do it
That was the point I was trying to make. If Shin had admitted the truth, would their friendship had survived? Hmm...I think Shin's saying he lapsed into the Dragon's Eye was just a lie or cover up. He couldn't very well admit to everyone that he attacked Mitsuomi because he didn't want him to steal his sister from him.
Probably not. If he admitted the truth it wouldn't have changed a thingAgent_Wax wrote:
That was the point I was trying to make. If Shin had admitted the truth, would their friendship had survived? Hmm...
Agent Wax
I think what Maya cannot forgive is simply Mits' decision to become the demon in order to fight future demons.I think that what Maya ultimately could not forgive is not that Mitsuomi directly, physically 'killed' Shin, but that his throwing down of the gauntlet, and subsequently his ruthlessness in the fight, drove Shin to his desperation and finally, his end.
It's the seed for drama in life. You must remember, happiness and despair are both spices of life. Oh, Heathcliff broke my soul... (not a real person)Which brings me to this general question: What is it about some women that they can't seem to be happy unless they're miserable?
No, everyone knew he was lying. Shin didn't even bother trying to sound sincere; you can see the sneer on his face. It's like when a bully pulls your hair then says "Oh I'm so sorry."And in another light, the eyepatch allowed Shin to claim that he had a blindspot when he injured Mitsuomi. Without it, the story would have progressed differently...
hmm.... I must've missed it.... could some1 possibly tell me the vol and pg #?FuguTabetai wrote: Shin was wearing an eye patch because Tawara screwed up his eye.
Try volume 6, page 11 on or so.SynthTrance wrote:hmm.... I must've missed it.... could some1 possibly tell me the vol and pg #?FuguTabetai wrote: Shin was wearing an eye patch because Tawara screwed up his eye.
He felt some guilt. But the guilt merely kept him from deciding to kill anyone else, rather than being the primary motivator for him to kill himself.I don't think Shin is that selfish, because when mana said that maya should help mitsuomi not take the path that shin took, shin left it alone
He wanted to die, to proclaim victory over his curse. He accepted his fate of being killed by Mits. But in the end his weakness allowed the Eye to return, and put his entire "noble" plan to shambles.he fought mitsuomi with his own power, since he wants to kill him with his own hands, not with the dragon eye, but he failed anyway, probably why he felt so miserable and killed himself.
I guess this is an interpretational issue. Personally, I tend to be able to forgive people their faults (eg. selfishness) if they apologise straight up. Making excuses is an extension of insincerity and possible treacherousness. I felt that Shin acted out of a moment's weakness when he attacked Mitsuomi. As such, their relationship may conceivably be salvageable had he not lied.No, everyone knew he was lying. Shin didn't even bother trying to sound sincere; you can see the sneer on his face. It's like when a bully pulls your hair then says "Oh I'm so sorry."
I don't think Aya was dreaming. She was using the Eye. And Shin didn't look damned. He just looked dead.Of course, that doesn't explain why he appeared as a damned soul in Aya's dream.
Gantz is sci fi. But not really. It's kinda "The Twilight Zone meets MIB to the power of n" . Suppose you take a bunch of normal, everyday people from various walks of life who just died. Put them all in a room and give them a mission. How would they react? How would a bunch of street thugs act when given awesome weapons? What will a demure grandmother do when forced to fight against aliens? How will a monk react when told that he has to assassinate Buddha?What is Gantz? Is it a manga currently in American bookstores? How come I've never seen it? Which company publishes it? What's it about (genre)?