Ch. 92

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Post by FuguTabetai » Mon Mar 27, 2006 8:15 am

shouki wrote:
Agent_Wax wrote:Fugu, I'm quite certain that the 'maru' kanji is not meant to be translated as 'circle' or 'sphere'. In Japan, pets are often given the honorific '-maru' (or sometimes '-chan'). A black dog could be called 'Kuromaru'. As such, the zombie dog's name should be just 'Dream'. '-maru' is also applied to the name of ships.
I was going to post about this myself, but you beat me to it. However, some additional...

"maru" is somewhat like the "ko" suffix for girls. However, it is rarely used in modern times (except for boats). I might be remembering some of this wrong but it used to be the case that boys from noble or semi-noble familes would have an "childhood" name, often ending with -maru, and then change it to something else on becoming an "adult". The kanji might be different though...

Anyway, I think Yumemaru should be left as is - after all, why translate the dog's name but none of the other characters? I think the -maru part suggests that Yumemaru is male though.
Goes to show you how many dogs I associate with.

I'll go back and change it when I get a chance. My new life in Tokyo has proven to be quite busy, so I don't have much time for translation.

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Post by EliteF22 » Wed Mar 29, 2006 5:02 pm

You know what just hit me, since Souichirou is the child of a Nagi and Kago, it is reasonable to assume that he could have had both gates when he was born. The Kago gate could have been operating in the background without him even knowing. Back in the bowling alley when Mitsuomi nailed him with his double forged needle Mits mentioned that Souichirou had enough ki to heal all the damage. But we haven't seen other people with a lot of ki heal their own wounds, like when Aya hurt her hands. Also if people could use their own ki to heal themselves, that would negate the need for the Hotaru family gate. It could in fact have been the Kago gate that saved him and regenerated the damaged tissue.

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Post by Asunder » Wed Mar 29, 2006 11:42 pm

I remember the idea that Nagi had both gates was brought up a long, long time ago when I was still just lurking. But back then, we didn't know what Kago's powers were. Still, thanks for reminding us of it EliteF22. It may come into play quite soon.

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Post by kk1 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:44 am

Asunder wrote:I remember the idea that Nagi had both gates was brought up a long, long time ago when I was still just lurking. But back then, we didn't know what Kago's powers were. Still, thanks for reminding us of it EliteF22. It may come into play quite soon.
Uhhm I brought it up on the second page of this thread... :(

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Post by EliteF22 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 4:43 am

I wasn't saying that the idea of him having both gates was new, but that the Kago gate may actually have been active earlier was. There were already long discussions about if Souichirou had both gates or not.

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Post by kk1 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:32 pm

EliteF22 wrote:I wasn't saying that the idea of him having both gates was new, but that the Kago gate may actually have been active earlier was. There were already long discussions about if Souichirou had both gates or not.
Oh ok, I don't think you caught the jist of what Nagi did in the bowling alley, lots of characters do and have used their own ki to heal themselves and others. Remember Maya's "kiss" to Nagi when they we're training? She was transferring ki also Maya said she didn't want to be healed by Hotaru because she uses that person's own ki and she didn't want to waste all the ki she had stored up on healing her arm. I think OG threw in that part about infusing ki into decayed flesh to explin the dog and himself that sounds kinda different than healing to me.

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Post by EliteF22 » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:58 pm

Remember Sohaku's fingers? He was able to regenerate not just dead flesh, but also destroyed tissue. The "kiss" also wasn't to heal him, but to give him a little ki to revive him. Hotaru just lends credence to what I was saying, if Maya could use her own ki to heal herself, why would she need Hotaru to do it. When a person is injured, there is some cell death, so Sohaku's ability to actually reanimate those cells could be viewed as healing.

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Mar 31, 2006 3:54 am

EliteF22 wrote:Remember Sohaku's fingers? He was able to regenerate not just dead flesh, but also destroyed tissue. The "kiss" also wasn't to heal him, but to give him a little ki to revive him. Hotaru just lends credence to what I was saying, if Maya could use her own ki to heal herself, why would she need Hotaru to do it. When a person is injured, there is some cell death, so Sohaku's ability to actually reanimate those cells could be viewed as healing.
Oh, that's quite simple.

If Maya healed herself, or even let Hotaru heal her, all the ki she has been collecting to fight Mitsuomi would have been spent. In fact, she did not let Hotaru heal her with her powers (only bandage her up so that Maya would heal naturally).

In fact, she says it outright, I am surprised you forgot.

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Post by bubblegum2000 » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:41 am

MrProphet wrote: If Maya healed herself, or even let Hotaru heal her, all the ki she has been collecting to fight Mitsuomi would have been spent. In fact, she did not let Hotaru heal her with her powers (only bandage her up so that Maya would heal naturally).
I thought she was collecting Ki to put it into Reiki, not to fight Mitsuomi :?:

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Post by kk1 » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:33 am

bubblegum2000 wrote:
MrProphet wrote: If Maya healed herself, or even let Hotaru heal her, all the ki she has been collecting to fight Mitsuomi would have been spent. In fact, she did not let Hotaru heal her with her powers (only bandage her up so that Maya would heal naturally).
I thought she was collecting Ki to put it into Reiki, not to fight Mitsuomi :?:

No, she explains it all when she is visiting Nagi's mom.

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Post by FuguTabetai » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:39 pm

Sorry for the slow translation. I put up another 3 pages or so. Turns out starting a new like and new job in a new country takes a lot of time, and doesn't leave much time to play around with hobbies.

Still, slowly but surely. As a fish, I've always liked turtles.

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Post by kk1 » Sat Apr 01, 2006 12:06 am

No need to apologize Fugu we have a whole month between chapters. Keep up the great job.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Tue Apr 04, 2006 12:33 am

Fugu, regarding the 'Iga saki' (I think the last Kanji should be read 'mono'):

Iga is a province in Kansai not far from Osaka and Kyoto. More importantly, it is regarded as one of the 2 birthplaces of Ninjitsu (the other being Kouga province). Consequently, most ninja from that era were identified as being either from the Iga or Kouga lineages. The Iga ninja were usually affiliated with the Tokugawa clan. Having had his life saved by Iga ninja Hanzo Hattori after Nobunaga's death, Ieyasu sort of made them the official ninja clan of the Tokugawa.

There is an Iga-ryu Ninjitsu Museum in Iga province today:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4351.html
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Post by Kyu1982 » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:00 pm

I was going to mention that Igasaki thing.
That is Iga ninja I believe.

Most of all, thanks you for translating TenTen Fuugu.

I did not know Nagi family is the junior head of 12 main family. So, Nagi family is right below Takayanagi. It is hard to believe because in present time, Nagi is not all great. living in tiny apartment, and people does not seem to like them. hehe. If you reread very earlier chapters, you would see my point.

My wild guess is that Nagi and Natsume will be only one living.
Shyoujyou will be the one who should open the gate from inside, but I don't think Souhaku will buy it. The most predictable theory is that Shyoujyou fails his mission and lose his head and Nagi gets his ass surrounded when he enters Osaka castle.

And, Natsume might show up and save the day or get caught, and we might see some SM actions. BTW, that is what I REALLY want.

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Post by kk1 » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:45 pm

Agent_Wax wrote:Fugu, regarding the 'Iga saki' (I think the last Kanji should be read 'mono'):

Iga is a province in Kansai not far from Osaka and Kyoto. More importantly, it is regarded as one of the 2 birthplaces of Ninjitsu (the other being Kouga province). Consequently, most ninja from that era were identified as being either from the Iga or Kouga lineages. The Iga ninja were usually affiliated with the Tokugawa clan. Having had his life saved by Iga ninja Hanzo Hattori after Nobunaga's death, Ieyasu sort of made them the official ninja clan of the Tokugawa.

There is an Iga-ryu Ninjitsu Museum in Iga province today:
http://www.japan-guide.com/e/e4351.html
And I think the reason she hit Nagi and is yelling at him is because he grabbed her to carry her because she was slow, not because she caught him wanking or anything as you have in your notes.

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Post by FuguTabetai » Wed Apr 05, 2006 7:43 pm

kk1 wrote:And I think the reason she hit Nagi and is yelling at him is because he grabbed her to carry her because she was slow, not because she caught him wanking or anything as you have in your notes.
Yes, I agree that is why she is mad - he was touching her because he grabbed her to run out of there. I just add the notes because there are some things that I don't understand. Just so people know when I am not clear on things. :)

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Post by Hariel0079 » Fri Apr 07, 2006 12:03 am

Ah makes sense, I had my thoughts but wasn't sure. I just finished reading the translation myself
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Post by EliteF22 » Sat Apr 08, 2006 3:58 pm

No one's brought this up yet, so I wanted to know what you all think. It's been revealed before that all the families have a similar origin story, that involves Gaokishi Takehaya Susano Oumikoto getting some girl pregnant. The resulting offspring then became the head of one of the families. Since Souhaku is the only member of the Kago family, there's a pretty good possibility that he is Gaokishi's son right? So what if all that he's doing was the wish of his father. I can only think of one hint about this, I think it was from the revised volume 14. The poem about the guy who's leaving and then entrusts his sword to the woman until he returns. Isn't Reiki that sword and so that would make Souicihirou the reborn guy that left.

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Post by MrProphet » Sat Apr 08, 2006 4:45 pm

I think I've mentioned somewhere that Takehaya Susano Oumikoto is one of the names of the god Susano-o.

Kago a demigod? LOL

This story is getting even more ridiculous, if this turns out to be true. 8)

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Post by FuguTabetai » Sat Apr 08, 2006 9:00 pm

finally finished translating chapter 93.

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Post by kk1 » Sat Apr 08, 2006 11:09 pm

Great job Fugu, can't wait until the next chapter it should be good. Elite22, hmm interesting, though it doesn't seem from Tetsuhito's story about his families origin, that the guy stuck around to be much of a father so I doubt he would have done any differently for Souhaku. Though I'm sure being around for as long as he has has given Souhaku a rather unique insight the other families lack.

And from this chapter it seems to me Nagi's ancestor will beat him(though probably with some Aya help), thus why he seduces his mom in the future. Take over the one family that can stop you.

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Post by kujoe » Sat Apr 15, 2006 4:05 am

Kyu1982 wrote:I did not know Nagi family is the junior head of 12 main family. So, Nagi family is right below Takayanagi. It is hard to believe because in present time, Nagi is not all great. living in tiny apartment, and people does not seem to like them. hehe. If you reread very earlier chapters, you would see my point.
Whoa, really?

The previous chapters seem to portray that they were either left behind, hated or resented even. But this current arc shows the Nagi clan as still being in relatively good terms with the other red feathers, at least from a professional perspective. It must've been during Makiko's time, or a bit earlier that things fell from there for her family.

And I thought the Natsume clan supposedly occupied the highest rank long ago? Just when did the Takayanagi clan get to be top dog, I wonder.

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Post by Kyu1982 » Sun Apr 16, 2006 2:19 am

takayanagi was still top dog in the 12 family.
I was just shocked that Nagi family has nothing.

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Post by kujoe » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:49 am

Kyu1982 wrote:takayanagi was still top dog in the 12 family.
Yes, but if I'm not mistaken, it was also mentioned that the Natsume family were the highest long ago. In fact, what's left of their past greatness is their estate. If so, that time must've been from long, long time ago—way before this ancient arc.

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Post by Kyu1982 » Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:06 am

kujoe wrote:
Kyu1982 wrote:takayanagi was still top dog in the 12 family.
Yes, but if I'm not mistaken, it was also mentioned that the Natsume family were the highest long ago. In fact, what's left of their past greatness is their estate. If so, that time must've been from long, long time ago—way before this ancient arc.
I don't think so.
There is only one time when the manga talked aobut Natsume family's wealth. It was volume 2 or 3 when Bob, Masataka, Chiaki, and Nagi visited for practice. Natsume house has outside Hot spring, and Chiaki assumed NAtsume family to be very rich, but Aya replied that Natsume family only has few estate left because last generation (Maya and Aya's parents) wasted or (should I say USED?) most estate.

This ancient arc is placed at around 100 years or 150 years ago.
I don't think anyone can manage to keep estate things during time of chaos or Maiji era. I am assuming Oh! great applies real life events.

Well, At least in the ancient arc, Nagi is in the charge of Red feathers.
Natsume is current head of Red fearthers. my wild guess is that Mitsuomi's father and previous head of Nastume family had close relationship as friend. So, the Head of Takayanagi might put Nastume in charge of red feather.

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Post by MrProphet » Mon Apr 17, 2006 1:56 pm

Kyu1982 wrote:This ancient arc is placed at around 100 years or 150 years ago.
I don't think anyone can manage to keep estate things during time of chaos or Maiji era. I am assuming Oh! great applies real life events.
First of all, the so-styled "Ancient Arc" is taking place 400 years ago, on the border of the Sengoku period and the beginning of the Bakufu. Nothing to do with Meiji Emperor.

Second of all, here's my take on Nagi.

1) Consider the properties of Dragon Fist. It can use unlimited ammount of ki and it can steal dragon gates from other users. If in the old times Nagi were one step below Takayanagi, it could mean that they were simply enforcers, in charge of punishing disobedient families and executing the will of the Takayanagi clan. This is the reason why they are feared.

2) Another possibility, though strongly tied to the first is that Nagi is the chief family of the Red Feathers, the generals and the commanders, just like Kabuto are the chief family of the White Feathers. You will notice that the Emperor was discussing his plan to attack Kago with Kabuto, so the old man must be pretty high up in the family hierarchy.

3) All in all, the hierarchy of the 12 clans might be the following. Takayanagi head at the top. Kabuto as his lieutenant and chief of staff, the planner. Nagi as his other lieutenant and in command of forward area deployments. Other families are subordinate to those two.

The earlier mention of Natsume being on top of things in the ancient times could be easily explained by two possibilities:

1) It was said in the earlier chapters, when sensei didn't make up his mind about the origin of the families (he is know to break continuity, after all).

2) Natsume were indeed the most powerful family before the official hierarchy of the clans was established, meaning it was so long ago that nobody really even remembers the details.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:38 pm

Since Nagi is the enforcer family in charge of punishing errant RFs, it comes as no surpirse that they are in charge of 'Operation: Slay Souhaku'. However, it was mentioned in the previous chapter that Kago is actually the head of the RFs, at least at this point in time.

As regards to the emperor: it seems that sensei is trying to parlay the story into one of the shogunate versus the royalty. Souhaku was probably responsible for the shoguns seizing power away from the emperor. The other families back the emperor, and are trying to restore his authority. The fact that the Japanese emperor remained a figurehead puppet until the Meiji Restoration should tell us how well their plan of ousting Souhaku worked...
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Post by MrProphet » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:15 am

But that doesn't make any sense!

Tokugawa's victory ended the Sengoku period and pretty much made sure that Tokugawa Bakufu stayed in power up untill the Bakumatsu.

You can even frame Souhaku's killing of Nobunaga as part of his quest to eliminate the Warring States and bring the Empire under a single ruling shogunate.

From this point of view, it was Souhaku who has won against the Takayanagi and stayed in power until the Patriots restored the power to the Emperor in 1868.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Tue Apr 18, 2006 11:49 pm

But that doesn't make any sense!

Tokugawa's victory ended the Sengoku period and pretty much made sure that Tokugawa Bakufu stayed in power up untill the Bakumatsu.

You can even frame Souhaku's killing of Nobunaga as part of his quest to eliminate the Warring States and bring the Empire under a single ruling shogunate.

From this point of view, it was Souhaku who has won against the Takayanagi and stayed in power until the Patriots restored the power to the Emperor in 1868.
That's precisely my guess. The Sengoku period was Japan's most war-torn era. Perhaps that was when Souhaku had the epiphany that he had to do what he had to in order to end the wars he hated so much: namely, the unification of the country under a single ruler. But that's all my conjecture, of course.
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Post by kk1 » Fri Apr 21, 2006 11:30 am

Kyu1982 wrote:
kujoe wrote:
Kyu1982 wrote:takayanagi was still top dog in the 12 family.
Yes, but if I'm not mistaken, it was also mentioned that the Natsume family were the highest long ago. In fact, what's left of their past greatness is their estate. If so, that time must've been from long, long time ago—way before this ancient arc.
I don't think so.
There is only one time when the manga talked aobut Natsume family's wealth. It was volume 2 or 3 when Bob, Masataka, Chiaki, and Nagi visited for practice. Natsume house has outside Hot spring, and Chiaki assumed NAtsume family to be very rich, but Aya replied that Natsume family only has few estate left because last generation (Maya and Aya's parents) wasted or (should I say USED?) most estate.

.
Chiaki thought they must be rich but Aya said the past generations spent all the money and all that they had left was their property. And what kujoe is talking about is in vol 3 when Mitsomi says to Maya(at the bowling alley) that "in the past the Natsumes were the only family born higher than the Takayanagi clan".

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