Fight 104

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Post by kk1 » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:03 pm

MrProphet wrote:
Swordfish II wrote:MrProphet, I can see where you're coming from with your observations, but it does seem that there are also some assumptions you are making in your viewpoint, as well as some items in TT that you don't include in your analysis.
Came by just to let you know that people are rioting (I'm not kidding) in the city where I live, so I don't really have the time to sort through all the Internet drama and personal anxiety here. I'll get back to you with my thoughts on the matter later on.

I hope you understand.
Likely excuse :wink:

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:32 pm

kk1 wrote:Likely excuse :wink:
Fuck you, man. Just fuck you!

This is the "excuse" I had yesterday:

Image

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Post by kk1 » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:58 am

Uhhh see the :wink: :wink: :wink: it's called I'm kidding jeez dude

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Post by Swordfish II » Sat Apr 28, 2007 1:47 pm

MrProphet wrote:This is the "excuse" I had yesterday:
Wow! Sorry I'm late getting in on this. What's going on over there?

I googled "riots in Tallinn" and come across this bit of news:

http://www.spiegel.de/international/eur ... 09,00.html

Hope you're OK!

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Post by FuguTabetai » Sun Apr 29, 2007 10:48 pm

I don't know if anyone noticed, but I did finish the translation yesterday. http://tjtg.mangatranslation.com/TJTG_17_Trans.html

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Post by iijyanaika » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:25 am

awesome, thanks fugu!

fugu- i know you're in japan. i'm visiting there this coming month, any places in particular that have random TJTG merchandise? i'm not sure what part you're in, but i'm doing a 2 week vacation over there and i'll be travelling from osaka to hokkaido. thanks for the info if you have any.

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Post by kk1 » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:40 am

FuguTabetai wrote:I don't know if anyone noticed, but I did finish the translation yesterday. http://tjtg.mangatranslation.com/TJTG_17_Trans.html
Appreciated as always Fugu.
Just as I thought (and posted above) Mits knew about Nokimi and is letting her do her stuff so they can use it. Aya's gotta be so conflicted she knows everything and cant do anything about it.

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Post by iijyanaika » Mon Apr 30, 2007 1:48 am

remember kabane's remark about needing to use her bugs for the true warrior?

what if they're letting nokimi use her bugs to collect all of this Ki. and kabane said, once the bugs get enough of a large amount, they'll create a new type. so then will shyoujou use this stored ki to get to 100%, since she said last time she could only get 80%. and you don't want to drain poor mitsuomi.

so maybe these bugs will be HP potions for mitsuomi and shyoujou?

poor aya, she's getting pushed aside like a little rag doll

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Post by Swordfish II » Mon Apr 30, 2007 10:24 am

This link for the scanlated TT104 was posted on StopTazmo earlier this morning.

Edit by fugu: I post text translations on this site. I would prefer not to see information about "scanlations" show up here. Thanks. (Link removed.)

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Post by kk1 » Mon Apr 30, 2007 2:07 pm

iijyanaika wrote:remember kabane's remark about needing to use her bugs for the true warrior?

what if they're letting nokimi use her bugs to collect all of this Ki. and kabane said, once the bugs get enough of a large amount, they'll create a new type. so then will shyoujou use this stored ki to get to 100%, since she said last time she could only get 80%. and you don't want to drain poor mitsuomi.

so maybe these bugs will be HP potions for mitsuomi and shyoujou?

poor aya, she's getting pushed aside like a little rag doll

I don't know how they'll do it, but that's an interesting theory letting the true warrior be "born" and use Shyoujyou to copy them, hmmmm I guess we know why Mits took Reiki now too.

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Post by Dgames » Mon Apr 30, 2007 4:06 pm

kk1 wrote:
iijyanaika wrote:remember kabane's remark about needing to use her bugs for the true warrior?

what if they're letting nokimi use her bugs to collect all of this Ki. and kabane said, once the bugs get enough of a large amount, they'll create a new type. so then will shyoujou use this stored ki to get to 100%, since she said last time she could only get 80%. and you don't want to drain poor mitsuomi.

so maybe these bugs will be HP potions for mitsuomi and shyoujou?

poor aya, she's getting pushed aside like a little rag doll

I don't know how they'll do it, but that's an interesting theory letting the true warrior be "born" and use Shyoujyou to copy them, hmmmm I guess we know why Mits took Reiki now too.
i don't think the true warrior can be "copied" because he isn't a normal fighter he is above that and a think the true warrior will have a sort of abnormal abilities and i haven't see Shyoujyou copy them ( i think i didn't but i might be wrong :P) i think him can just copy normal skillz like that guy attak using the moon.

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Post by iijyanaika » Tue May 01, 2007 3:31 am

if you're refferring to mitsuomi being the true warrior, then yes he is a normal fighter. that's why he made the enforcement group how it is. why do you think he invited Bob. he wants to get rid of the supernatural people.

and shyoujou has been copying him fairly well. hanging off of building with a couple fingers, ripping a bull to shreads. 80% as stated by......can't remember but it was mitsuomi/shyoujou. mitsuomi also took out his earrings *partly* so people wouldn't see a physical difference between the two. now i'm sure if he doesn't want people seeing a difference, noticing that *hey wait, that's not mitsuomi* he's also going to teach how to do some of the takayanagi's techniques like the tanshinkou and such.

i'm curious as to how much of a bigger role masataka is going to come about later on. and what's daddy dearest doing teaming up with eldest son.

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Post by Dgames » Thu May 03, 2007 2:34 am

i never said mitsuomi was the true warrior i just said that in my opinion the true warrior can't be copied by shyoujou i just said that shyoujou can only copy normal ataks like needle horned atak(or something like this :P)

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Post by kk1 » Thu May 03, 2007 12:56 pm

Dgames wrote:i never said mitsuomi was the true warrior i just said that in my opinion the true warrior can't be copied by shyoujou i just said that shyoujou can only copy normal ataks like needle horned atak(or something like this :P)
Shyjyou copies ki if the true warrior uses ki (like everyone else) than he can be copied, probably not perfectly but...

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Post by Dgames » Thu May 03, 2007 1:27 pm

kk1 wrote:
Dgames wrote:i never said mitsuomi was the true warrior i just said that in my opinion the true warrior can't be copied by shyoujou i just said that shyoujou can only copy normal ataks like needle horned atak(or something like this :P)
Shyjyou copies ki if the true warrior uses ki (like everyone else) than he can be copied, probably not perfectly but...
I still don't think he can copy the true warrior it will be to much power for him
he will probably die in the process I just can't see no point for a battle betwen 2 True warriors

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Post by iijyanaika » Thu May 03, 2007 8:36 pm

just because she can(if) copy anyone, doesn't mean she's untouchable >.>

look what happened to the past shyoujou, he ended up having his body taken over.

so if she gets her ass kicked before she can imprint the ki on herself, it won't really matter if she fights the *true warrior* -if- that person is also antagonistic towards her as well.

die in the process? she has already copied 80% of mitsuomi. and he's pretty much a freak in strength/technique/3minute nitrous

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Post by kk1 » Fri May 04, 2007 2:00 am

Dgames wrote:
kk1 wrote:
Dgames wrote:i never said mitsuomi was the true warrior i just said that in my opinion the true warrior can't be copied by shyoujou i just said that shyoujou can only copy normal ataks like needle horned atak(or something like this :P)
Shyjyou copies ki if the true warrior uses ki (like everyone else) than he can be copied, probably not perfectly but...
I still don't think he can copy the true warrior it will be to much power for him
he will probably die in the process I just can't see no point for a battle betwen 2 True warriors
And how do you know how much power the true warrior is going to have or how much Shyoujyou(a she by the way not he) can take?

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Post by Dgames » Fri May 04, 2007 2:11 am

kk1 wrote:
Dgames wrote:
kk1 wrote: Shyjyou copies ki if the true warrior uses ki (like everyone else) than he can be copied, probably not perfectly but...
I still don't think he can copy the true warrior it will be to much power for him
he will probably die in the process I just can't see no point for a battle betwen 2 True warriors
And how do you know how much power the true warrior is going to have or how much Shyoujyou(a she by the way not he) can take?
The true warrior is suposed to be a living martial arts god right? so use your knowledge about god aren't they the most powerfull have all the knowledge(if they exist :twisted:) so the true warrior will be the most powerfull and will have all the knowledge (about martial arts) and so if shyoujou copied him he couldn't control the power or use it and in maybe die !

PS: Sorry for my mistake :P

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Post by iijyanaika » Fri May 04, 2007 2:22 am

you still made the mistake even after realizing it. (she)

1. who are you presuming is the true warrior?
2. if you're assuming it's mitsuomi, then please read back at my previous post. she has reached 80% of his strength according to kabane(i kabane is the one who says it) and kabane says that it's because there is no one else around to induce resonance. so shyoujyou has a smile on her face, and kabane is saying that she can reach 100%

it hasn't been said she can't. and it takes a bit to imprint the ki. so she can easily be kicked around before copying whomever it is, if the person kicking about is skilled enough to do so

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Post by Dgames » Fri May 04, 2007 2:36 am

iijyanaika wrote:you still made the mistake even after realizing it. (she)

1. who are you presuming is the true warrior?
2. if you're assuming it's mitsuomi, then please read back at my previous post. she has reached 80% of his strength according to kabane(i kabane is the one who says it) and kabane says that it's because there is no one else around to induce resonance. so shyoujyou has a smile on her face, and kabane is saying that she can reach 100%

it hasn't been said she can't. and it takes a bit to imprint the ki. so she can easily be kicked around before copying whomever it is, if the person kicking about is skilled enough to do so
1)The person that is the true warrior is not important the powers should be the same so that doesn't mater.
2) i've said in a previous post that i don't think mitsuomi is the true warrior in my opinion it will be nagi or aya.
i'm just saying that isn't probably the true warrior to be copied as above was write and if even it gets copied because she will die; can't use the power or control it.
This is just my opinion

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Post by Swordfish II » Fri May 11, 2007 10:45 am

Dgames wrote:2) i've said in a previous post that i don't think mitsuomi is the true warrior in my opinion it will be nagi or aya.
Pardon me for jumping in, but I was under the impression that the "True Warrior" could not be a member of the Red Feather families, due to the requirement for the True Warrior to not possess any supernormal abilities.

If this is the case, then Aya (with her Dragon's Eye) and Souichiro (with his Dragon's Fist) could not be the True Warrior, no matter what their fighting knowledge and skills may be.

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Post by DemonNeedle » Fri May 11, 2007 12:58 pm

Pardon me for jumping in, but I was under the impression that the "True Warrior" could not be a member of the Red Feather families, due to the requirement for the True Warrior to not possess any supernormal abilities.
Well since white feathers are basically professional martial artists, then couldn't a red feather still be the "True Warrior" as long as they don't actually use their powers to gain martial art skills.

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Post by kujoe » Fri May 11, 2007 1:13 pm

Isn't there a description of the True Warrior that goes along the lines of "exorcising demons?" Well, that's quite similar to the description of the demon exorcist. I don't think such a title is exclusive to a particular faction.

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Post by Swordfish II » Sat May 12, 2007 8:50 am

kujoe wrote:Isn't there a description of the True Warrior that goes along the lines of "exorcising demons?" Well, that's quite similar to the description of the demon exorcist. I don't think such a title is exclusive to a particular faction.
That's one way of looking at it, and I also do recall seeing that bit that you mention about the True Warrior "exorcising demons", although my impression was that this was to be done without supernormal abilities. But it's pretty easy to see how such a statement could be misconstrued. Oh!Great specializes in that sort of ambiguity. :wink:

That being said, I'm not sure exactly where I myself got the impression that the True Warrior had to be a White Feather! Although Mitsoumi's statement about "Man surpassing Gods" at the end of ch. 99 (v. 16 pg. 162) is one example of what I'm referring to.

I've been working on adding to the TT "Main Characters List" that fugu started a while back; I will keep this question in mind as I continue that, in case I see anything that bolsters one point of view or the other.

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Post by tkstka » Sat May 12, 2007 9:33 am

does anyone know when will 105 come out?

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Post by DemonNeedle » Sat May 12, 2007 3:06 pm

That being said, I'm not sure exactly where I myself got the impression that the True Warrior had to be a White Feather! Although Mitsoumi's statement about "Man surpassing Gods" at the end of ch. 99 (v. 16 pg. 162) is one example of what I'm referring to.
Well, most people think that its supposed to be a white feather since the mention of a True Demon, who uses supernatural ways to gain his/her skills like Nagi for the most part( With him not knowing about Souhaku, who will probably take over Soichirou's mind later on to cause havoc in the school, it seems that Nagi could be that person). But, you're right. It could end up that the True Warrior is a Red feather and the True Demon can be a white feather or Vice Versa. It could even be two red featers or two white feathers.

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Post by iijyanaika » Sat May 12, 2007 3:20 pm

i still don't agree with ya(dgames) saying shyoujou can't copy the true warrior whoever it may be. yes it is an insane powerup, BUT, it takes time for her to imprint the ki. look at how long she was training/imprinting with mitsuomi, and she still only managed 80%

as far as who the true warrior may be, i like to think masataka/mitsuomi will end up fitting the role. i like the idea of someone with no supernatural abilities playing the part. if you have supernatural abilities, great, you're already super. plus oh great! did mention he was wanting masataka to have the main lead.

meh, it'll be interesting to see who it ends up as. or if he does something ambiguous and says it's not one, but everyone, that the true warrior lies within each individual, etc.

it'll be interesting to see how this coming chapter ends the volume off.

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Post by kujoe » Sun May 13, 2007 4:50 am

The title really has nothing to do with super abilities, I think. Even white feathers can beat the crap out of the red ones.

What's central to the True Warrior title is the description that he/she is one who is able to "exorcize demons"—a description that could mean different things.

Demon exorcists on the other hand, are those who "become demons in order to exorcize demons" Moreover, Maya has often reminded Nagi that the true opponent is oneself. I think that speaks volumes with regard to Shin and Mitsuomi, so that automatically disqualifies the latter from that title. So, uhm...what was I getting at? Well anyway, I think so far the manga is gradually showing us that the True Warrior isn't some super fighter of some kind per se.
Swordfish II wrote:That's one way of looking at it, and I also do recall seeing that bit that you mention about the True Warrior "exorcising demons", although my impression was that this was to be done without supernormal abilities. But it's pretty easy to see how such a statement could be misconstrued. Oh!Great specializes in that sort of ambiguity. :wink:
There's also that OVA. At first, my reaction to Mitsuomi referring to Nagi as the True Warrior was along the lines of incredulity. But as the manga progressed, perhaps there's something more to this True Warrior business than what the eye can see.

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Post by Dgames » Sun May 13, 2007 3:19 pm

Swordfish II wrote:
kujoe wrote:Isn't there a description of the True Warrior that goes along the lines of "exorcising demons?" Well, that's quite similar to the description of the demon exorcist. I don't think such a title is exclusive to a particular faction.


That being said, I'm not sure exactly where I myself got the impression that the True Warrior had to be a White Feather! Although Mitsoumi's statement about "Man surpassing Gods" at the end of ch. 99 (v. 16 pg. 162) is one example of what I'm referring to.
So? aren't the red feathers mans? go see the volumes that talk about the ressonance ( i'm too lazy and tired to search :P ) according to that info if there are many red feather togther they create a ressonanc and anyone can end up as a red feather even a whit feather family(i think) if anyone can end up whit red feathers power why can't red feather be the true warrior?

Still

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Post by iijyanaika » Sun May 13, 2007 5:37 pm

when more and more come together there is a resonance, and it helps awaken any latent powers. BUT, it doesn't just make anyone have powers.

go read fight 40 pg 33 fu chien talks about the takayanagi's bringing people with latent powers to the school

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Post by kk1 » Sun May 13, 2007 6:52 pm

iijyanaika wrote:when more and more come together there is a resonance, and it helps awaken any latent powers. BUT, it doesn't just make anyone have powers.

go read fight 40 pg 33 fu chien talks about the takayanagi's bringing people with latent powers to the school
Yes, you're right many people have powers that just haven't awakened yet, but it will not give you a power you don't have. Look at Nagi his power would have stayed dormant if not for everything that's happened to him in the past year.

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Post by Dgames » Mon May 14, 2007 4:38 pm

kk1 wrote:
iijyanaika wrote:when more and more come together there is a resonance, and it helps awaken any latent powers. BUT, it doesn't just make anyone have powers.

go read fight 40 pg 33 fu chien talks about the takayanagi's bringing people with latent powers to the school
Yes, you're right many people have powers that just haven't awakened yet, but it will not give you a power you don't have. Look at Nagi his power would have stayed dormant if not for everything that's happened to him in the past year.
No go see volume 15 fight 88 pag 15-23 when dougen talks to mastaka, bunshishi, kurei, asshat he says the days when ppl don't have any power have come to an end if the ressonance theory is correct

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Post by iijyanaika » Mon May 14, 2007 11:44 pm

the chapter/pages that you just pointed out, are exactly what i stated. Fight 88 pgs20-21 say that out loud and clear.

he's only talking about people who already have powers, but are slumbering. the research is what if you bring a group together, the resonance will awaken those close by. but what happens when you bring together a large MASSIVE amount of people. the resonance will therefore increase, and affect a larger area(i.e. the world)

good try though

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Post by Dgames » Tue May 15, 2007 2:06 am

iijyanaika wrote:the chapter/pages that you just pointed out, are exactly what i stated. Fight 88 pgs20-21 say that out loud and clear.

he's only talking about people who already have powers, but are slumbering. the research is what if you bring a group together, the resonance will awaken those close by. but what happens when you bring together a large MASSIVE amount of people. the resonance will therefore increase, and affect a larger area(i.e. the world)

good try though
no he said everyone go read again he clearly says "then days when ppl do not have any powers have come to an end" and the ressonance can be bring powers to every one in the world.

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Post by kk1 » Tue May 15, 2007 2:24 am

Dgames wrote:
iijyanaika wrote:the chapter/pages that you just pointed out, are exactly what i stated. Fight 88 pgs20-21 say that out loud and clear.

he's only talking about people who already have powers, but are slumbering. the research is what if you bring a group together, the resonance will awaken those close by. but what happens when you bring together a large MASSIVE amount of people. the resonance will therefore increase, and affect a larger area(i.e. the world)

good try though
no he said everyone go read again he clearly says "then days when ppl do not have any powers have come to an end" and the ressonance can be bring powers to every one in the world.
I don't know what translation you're reading but Dougen doesn't say that and only talks about awakening red feather powers.

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Post by Dgames » Tue May 15, 2007 2:35 am

kk1 wrote:
Dgames wrote:
iijyanaika wrote:the chapter/pages that you just pointed out, are exactly what i stated. Fight 88 pgs20-21 say that out loud and clear.

he's only talking about people who already have powers, but are slumbering. the research is what if you bring a group together, the resonance will awaken those close by. but what happens when you bring together a large MASSIVE amount of people. the resonance will therefore increase, and affect a larger area(i.e. the world)

good try though
no he said everyone go read again he clearly says "then days when ppl do not have any powers have come to an end" and the ressonance can be bring powers to every one in the world.
I don't know what translation you're reading but Dougen doesn't say that and only talks about awakening red feather powers.
He clearly says THE DAYS WHEN PPL DO NOT HAVE ANY POWERS HAVE COME TO AN END
And all red feather i've seen have their power except for maya but she is a normal human and i don't think she will get one

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Post by iijyanaika » Tue May 15, 2007 6:24 am

just like KK1 said, not really sure what translation you're reading, but if you're reading -fugu's- translation, then we're right, and you're wrong

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Post by Dgames » Tue May 15, 2007 6:47 am

a combination of all the strongest people are gathered together in one place ... what would happen?
Bubble 3 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: The "power" and "power" would draw each other together
Bubble 4 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: and in the end

Bubble 5 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: wouldn't it wake the "power" in each other like the rooster at dawn?
Bubble 6 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: And if even more people again

Bubble 7 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: are gathered there again ... what would happen?
Bubble 0 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: The days when People who don't have any powers

Bubble 1 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: fear those who do will come to and end

i removed the japanese parts to don't get huge maybe i misunderstand the translation but as far as i understand first only awakes the sleeping power like nagi and then would give power to every one

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Post by iijyanaika » Tue May 15, 2007 7:02 am

look at what it is saying right before. when the people are gathered together in one place, the power and power would draw each other together, and a awaken the power *within* each person like the rooster at dawn.

then it directly goes to talk about what if even more people gathered. like a drop of water(i.e. ripple effect).

the last two lines you provided should be spaced apart from the rest, being that he doesn't say that until 3 pages after the ripple talk

you're simply misunderstanding the translation

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Post by Swordfish II » Tue May 15, 2007 7:10 am

Dgames wrote:Bubble 0 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: The days when People who don't have any powers

Bubble 1 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: fear those who do will come to and end
Mitsoumi is saying this, not Dougen (speaking to Madoka in the cave right after he's lopped Souhaku's head off).

This may be the source of this confusion, because when I read it, it seems that Takayanagi Dougen is saying one thing, stating that only existing Red Feathers will be awakened (with statements like on vol. 15 pg. 21 "All of the unique abilites of all the people that have long been slumbering", which indicates to me that he is talking about Red Feathers only), and then Mitsoumi 's statements (corrected above), which, well... also reading the last page of ch. 88, I'm actually not quite sure what he's talking about. It's quite clear that Mits is focused on enabling people without powers (White Feathers, I take it) to be finally somehow superior to those who do (Red Feathers).

Whether he is talking about "powerless" people also obtaining supernormal abilities is unclear. Since he seems to express an aversion to Red Feather abilities (although he will use them to the benefit of his agenda), I get the impression the answer is no.

Dialog like this throughout this series is part of what has given me the impression that the "True Warrior", ergo, cannot be a Red Feather.

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Post by Dgames » Tue May 15, 2007 11:25 am

the true warrior can be anyone that can defeat is own fears, fight for the sake of others being a red feather or a normal feather that doesn't really matter, u can say that red feathers have less probability to be the true warrior because they trust to much in their power and think an overhelming power is enough to win all battles...
but if someone think diferently .....

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Post by kujoe » Tue May 15, 2007 11:34 am

Swordfish II wrote:Whether he is talking about "powerless" people also obtaining supernormal abilities is unclear. Since he seems to express an aversion to Red Feather abilities (although he will use them to the benefit of his agenda), I get the impression the answer is no.

Dialog like this throughout this series is part of what has given me the impression that the "True Warrior", ergo, cannot be a Red Feather.
Wait, now I'm confused. Are you implying there's a relationship between resonance and the True Warrior? Because if white feathers are able to resonate, then Dougen's group would've toppled all the red feather schemers a long time ago. It doesn't make sense how white feathers could possibly resonate with one another. That's not where their strengths lie.

On another note, white feathers already do have supernormal abilities in a certain sense. All those special techniques (i.e. Takayanagi's Forged Needle, Mataza's spear technique, Masataka's fighting style, etc.) and whatnot—the seven other gates—are still attainable, and it seems to me that they make good use of them as well. There seems to be a dominant perspective here: that red feathers are totally overpowered and that white feathers are "weaker" when the reality can sometimes be the opposite. Both still have to train and learn; both still have their weaknesses and strengths, and not all red feather powers are suitable for direct confrontation. While some of the red feather powers are offensive in nature, they're also highly specialized for certain tasks. Even Nagi wouldn't get far if all he knew was the Dragon Fist.

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Post by kk1 » Tue May 15, 2007 12:51 pm

Swordfish II wrote:
Dgames wrote:Bubble 0 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: The days when People who don't have any powers

Bubble 1 Character: Takayanagi Dougen
Author: fugu Language: English: fear those who do will come to and end
Mitsoumi is saying this, not Dougen (speaking to Madoka in the cave right after he's lopped Souhaku's head off).

.
Yes, that's Mits talking (to Nagi not Madoka btw). Mitsuomi wants non powered people to start hunting powered people and stop being their prey. That's what he's been training for and why he was able to kill Souhaku and stop Inue, which is why I really don't understand him using Shyoujyou :?

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Post by Swordfish II » Tue May 15, 2007 1:36 pm

kujoe wrote:Wait, now I'm confused. Are you implying there's a relationship between resonance and the True Warrior?
No, not at all. The "resonance" that keeps getting mentioned is a property of those with Red Feather (8th Dragon Gate) abilities only. White Feathers and other people who do not possess supernatural abilities have nothing to "resonate" with. At least, that's my take.
On another note, white feathers already do have supernormal abilities in a certain sense. All those special techniques (i.e. Takayanagi's Forged Needle, Mataza's spear technique, Masataka's fighting style, etc.) and whatnot—the seven other gates—are still attainable, and it seems to me that they make good use of them as well. *snip*
Agree. Any discipline that enables "regular" people to tap into their Ki and shatter concrete, slice through stone/metal, etc. without requiring a "Red Feather" 8th Dragon Gate is still something of worth! (Too bad things don't work that way in real life! :wink:) An unschooled Red Feather like Nagi was when he entered the Toudou Academy gets readily whomped by Maya with the Blue Wood (5th?) Dragon Gate finely honed.

But right there is something that makes it challenging to track things: Maya has no 8th Dragon Gate, although her family (Natsume) is a Red Feather family. So obviously being born a Red Feather doesn't automatically give you supernormal abilities. (Although I have a feeling that Maya may still manifest some ability, as indicated by Reiki's behavior towards her which enabled her to kill Kagiroi Tetsuhito.)

Then you have examples like Tsumuji Mataza (whom I hate, but that's besides the point!): He's a White Feather, although he has Red Feather abilities (Dragon's Claw). Huh? I know I'm missing something there!

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Post by kujoe » Tue May 15, 2007 2:54 pm

Swordfish II wrote:Then you have examples like Tsumuji Mataza (whom I hate, but that's besides the point!): He's a White Feather, although he has Red Feather abilities (Dragon's Claw). Huh? I know I'm missing something there!
Mataza is a child born out of wedlock. His mother hails from a red feather branch family, whereas his father is the head of the Tsumuji clan, which belongs among the white feathers. Since the family structure in TJTG more or less still retains the traditional feudal setup of the olden times, by name Mataza is considered a white feather, and I assume that's his official affiliation as well.

(I remember kk1 making the assumption that perhaps red feather powers are inherited from the mother's side, which makes sense with regard to Souichirou and Mataza.)

As for Maya, my guess is she probably didn't inherit the Dragon's Eye from her ancestors. It makes sense, I think. If all the children of red feathers inherited powers, then they would've been the leaders of the 12 Families even today.

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Post by Swordfish II » Tue May 15, 2007 7:51 pm

kujoe wrote:Mataza is a child born out of wedlock. His mother hails from a red feather branch family, whereas his father is the head of the Tsumuji clan, which belongs among the white feathers. *snip*
Ah, that's it. Thanks. I forget about that.
kk1 wrote: Mitsoumi wants non powered people to start hunting powered people and stop being their prey. That's what he's been training for and why he was able to kill Souhaku and stop Inue, which is why I really don't understand him using Shyoujyou :?
My take on Mits is that he will utilize everything and do anything to promote his vision of the Red Feather's downfall, including using Red Feathers still loyal to the Takayanagi family against themselves. I don't think that Kabane or Shyoujyou know what his ultimate agenda truly is.

On that note, I must say that I have come to regard Mitsoumi as a dark and somewhat evil figure, as scheming and manipulative in his own way as Souhaku. A shame, because he really had a chance to live a good life, and threw it all away for power and his insane quest.

Oh, and yes, you are right, kk1 -- Mits was indeed speaking to Nagi, not Madoka.

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Post by DemonNeedle » Tue May 15, 2007 9:35 pm

My take on Mits is that he will utilize everything and do anything to promote his vision of the Red Feather's downfall, including using Red Feathers still loyal to the Takayanagi family against themselves. I don't think that Kabane or Shyoujyou know what his ultimate agenda truly is.

On that note, I must say that I have come to regard Mitsoumi as a dark and somewhat evil figure, as scheming and manipulative in his own way as Souhaku. A shame, because he really had a chance to live a good life, and threw it all away for power and his insane quest
I agree with you completely. Mits doesn't care how he gets the job done as long as its done. Of course, he probably tries to keep out as many red feathers as possible from his plans, but he's like his dad two years ago: he wants there to be a danger at the school, someone who is causing trouble at the school , so that the "True Warrior" will respond to it. Something tells me that he also planned for everyone to gather there including Makiko, Kabane , and Shoujo for there to be a huge RWR that will awaken all the dormant powers all over the world first, before the True Warrior comes. But not only for that, also to make a red feather (Most likely Nagi because he has so many Dragon Gates and it seems to be that when so many Red Feather DG's are open they start to gain more and more control over their powers, but for someone like Nagi with so many can't control all of them at the same time) so berserk. When that happens, Mits probably believes someone who will respond to that Wave of energy that isn't a red feather to become the True Warrior.

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Post by kk1 » Wed May 16, 2007 2:26 am

DemonNeedle wrote: But not only for that, also to make a red feather (Most likely Nagi because he has so many Dragon Gates and it seems to be that when so many Red Feather DG's are open they start to gain more and more control over their powers, but for someone like Nagi with so many can't control all of them at the same time) so berserk. When that happens, Mits probably believes someone who will respond to that Wave of energy that isn't a red feather to become the True Warrior.
Wah? No. As we have seen when he was being held by his father Nagi now is very much in control of his power.

BTW Is there anyway you could you make your avatar bigger I can't quite make out the pores on everyones skin :shock:
Last edited by kk1 on Wed May 16, 2007 2:42 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by kk1 » Wed May 16, 2007 2:40 am

Swordfish II wrote:
kk1 wrote: Mitsoumi wants non powered people to start hunting powered people and stop being their prey. That's what he's been training for and why he was able to kill Souhaku and stop Inue, which is why I really don't understand him using Shyoujyou :?
My take on Mits is that he will utilize everything and do anything to promote his vision of the Red Feather's downfall, including using Red Feathers still loyal to the Takayanagi family against themselves. I don't think that Kabane or Shyoujyou know what his ultimate agenda truly is.

On that note, I must say that I have come to regard Mitsoumi as a dark and somewhat evil figure, as scheming and manipulative in his own way as Souhaku. A shame, because he really had a chance to live a good life, and threw it all away for power and his insane quest.

.
I'm assuming, as in the past, Shyoujyou and Kabane's participation has something to do with Dougen. As we saw when Nagi and Aya were training everyone except 'F' is still loyal to him. I also think Mitsuomi is rather misunderstood, he's probably one of the most intelligent people in the book and one of the few who knows everything that is going on. It was also hinted at that him and Shin were actually working together to stop everything before fate stepped in and changed things. Remember with everyone having their own agenda and us not getting the whole story sometimes it's pretty difficult to see who the 'real' bad guy is in this book. Mitsuomi does want to stop the pain and suffering that he and others experienced because of the red feathers powers and also the suffering those powers sometimes cause the people who weild them, like Shin. So his methods are different from Maya's does that really make him bad? Don't pass judgement just yet, Mitsuomi is one of my favorite charachters and I think Oh Great! is going to surprise everyone with what he has in store for him :wink:

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Post by iijyanaika » Wed May 16, 2007 2:51 am

ditto on that. i don't feel mitsuomi is bad. he's one of those people where he t hinks the end justifies the means. he has good intentions, but he as he's seen with the past(shin) he doesn't want a repeat of that. so his fear is having him act out right away, rather than waiting to see what happens.

i don't remember where, but i liked it where one person had a huge WTF moment, and was saying *so shin and mitsuomi where in it together all along* and was wondering why shin went along with it since he died. and after that we didn't hear anything else confirming or denying whether or not they were in it together.

it'll be interesting to see if we get any other kind of flashback when it comes around to mitsuomi and it's him and shin talking about things, and maybe shin knowing of sohaku. all we ever saw of that interation was when shin was going to be fed to makiko

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