Fight 122

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

Moderator: FuguTabetai

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Fight 122

Post by kk1 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:33 am

I can't get the pic but the new chapter is out and the splash page is up at Shueisha.

User avatar
Dizzy
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:39 pm

Post by Dizzy » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:54 pm

How could it be out already, it's around 2AM in Japan? The only stuff I see on the Shueisha site is from 121 (Correct me please). But yes, it is getting close to that time of the month.

Edit: Never mind, it just popped up on the usual raw location. How did they get it this early in the morning over there?

Edit #2: Looks like a good one, we finally get out of Nagi's mental loss, back into the real world, and back to the top of Takayanagi tower.
Last edited by Dizzy on Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.

pintudao
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 34
Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 7:24 pm

RAW!

Post by pintudao » Wed Feb 18, 2009 1:54 pm

The raw (cam) is out! That was fast!

User avatar
Kyu1982
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 106
Joined: Tue May 04, 2004 9:09 pm

Post by Kyu1982 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 2:38 pm

It has been a long time since I post a reply. hehe.
haha, I am sure most of us had a chance to see a new chapter.

God, all the members of Takayanagi family act cool until now.
And, They cannot even do a thing.

Just like, a woman from enma clan said, Takayanagi and Flying Phoenix is falling down. (it was a very long time ago for us. like three-four years ago.) Last picture of falling Takayanagi family crest would be a representation of the end of Takayanagi family and also the end of Mitsuomi.

I think Oh Great is finally killing off Mitsuomi. To be honest, how can a man fight against a monster who can call lighting with his toe. It is 100% suicide.

We all know that Susanaoh cannot harm Amaterasu, and Mitsuomi is still tring to pull something to protect Maya. It will be boring if Nagi kills Mitsuomi and Masataka gets pissed off and tries to fight Nagi and lose, and at the very end manages to win with help from others. It will be too predictable for Oh Great.

Well, it is good chapter this week.
I was extremely disturbed by seeing Benkei from Air Gear to lose her leg. Evil Oh Great, I think he is not human. Haha, at least stupid impression from Dogen is worth reading this chapter.

Cannot wait for the next chapter.

User avatar
hedrocs
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 14
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2008 5:07 pm

Post by hedrocs » Wed Feb 18, 2009 4:40 pm

chapter 122 really short wan :?

Anyways a good chapter non the less.

Looks like oh! great is preparing the ring for the final fight but there's so many things that could happen :)

oh! great is way to twisted to be just a 1 on 1 fight : we still have mitsuomi ( will probably see what will happen to him in the next chapter ) there's makiko and there's aya , bob ,asshat , Shinichiro in the spirit world , there's so many possibilities to what will happen next .

Anyways can't wait to see what will happen next :)

User avatar
Ricco
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:14 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Ricco » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:08 pm

Who exactly is in charge of Nagi's body anyway? I got the feeling that it's just a mindless beast right now and that part of "the true warrior" remembered Nagi's love for Maya and wanted to hold her.
"Heartless angel or soulles demon NOTHING will stand in my way!"

User avatar
iijyanaika
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 109
Joined: Mon Sep 04, 2006 5:27 am
Location: san diego, CA

Post by iijyanaika » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:39 pm

Kyu1982 wrote:
We all know that Susanaoh cannot harm Amaterasu, and Mitsuomi is still tring to pull something to protect Maya.
.
that doesn'tt make sense at all. there is absolutely no reason for him not to be able to kill her, but he doesn't have a reason in the first place to want to, that we know of. and we still don't know who's in control.

Gaokishi Takehaya Susano Ono Mikoto has been born :o

User avatar
Sleepy Weasel
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:30 am

Post by Sleepy Weasel » Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:50 pm

The flash file was not up before i left for work this morning. better late then never :)


Image

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:05 pm

Bah I love and hate chapters like this, looks great and lots of set up...then wait another month :x What happened downstairs? What Happened in the spirit world? Where's Makiko? What was the point of Iyo contacting everyone? And of course since the next chapter is the last of this volume it's going to end on a cliff hanger instead of answering anything.

DemonNeedle
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:51 am

Post by DemonNeedle » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:47 pm

^ I was feeling the same way. Good chpater, but nothing really happened during the chapter. I've never seen such a shocked look on Masataka's face and Dougen's face was simply priceless. It looks like the complete fall of the Takayanagi clan in the next chapter, so if next chapter is the last of the volume, then it could end with a climatic clash between Souichiro and Mitsuomi.

User avatar
Testament
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Post by Testament » Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:53 pm

Kyu1982 wrote:We all know that Susanaoh cannot harm Amaterasu,
Really? Then I missed the point at some point. I thought you can't kill Amaterasu with special abilities, since everything will be neutralized. But normal attacks should still do the job?

Maya resemble the first Reiki wielder don't ya think? And again Sohaku can not touch her. :lol:

I really got a similar expression like Masataka, after saw Dougen on the next page... hope he intended to do something, although his hands didn't show signs of something like that.

The scene of Emi was :shock: but somehow in :oops: kind of way to look and think about it more then someone should...

Now I am wondering, Oh Great use a many chinese reference so what is with the phoenix? Is it the chinese or the egypt/greek one?
The egypt version would burn again out of his "death" so it might give hints considering the last page of this chapter.
The chinese one don't have this ability, it is more like immortal and never die.
I just consider the phoenix as chinese one in this post, though I am not sure, because it is always translated as phoenix and not Fenghuang/"ho-o". So in fact the Takayanagi family won't be at the end, maybe Mitsoumi life will come to an end, but this don't mean that goes for the whole clan. Yes Masataka could be the next heir ^^

I am waiting for next month!
My soul hard while firm
My mind clear and calm
My wisdom open and wide
My name reaches insignificance
Only one among us can stand under heaven

User avatar
Sleepy Weasel
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 216
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 9:30 am

Post by Sleepy Weasel » Wed Feb 18, 2009 9:50 pm

mits down! imo


it will be nagi/Souhaku vs masa if anything is "one on one"

this volume will most likely end with nagi/Souhaku laying it down and kicking some serious ass, and then leaving with maya.

I doubt he is there to kill her as there would be no real point in that unless i have missed something. I am sure he has something more planned else she would have been dead a long time ago.

next volume will start a "new day"

User avatar
Dizzy
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:39 pm

Post by Dizzy » Wed Feb 18, 2009 10:08 pm

If it really is a pheonix then it will rise from it's own ashes most likely. I perceive this to mean that with Mits down it will all fall on Jr. Also...Ameterasu and Susano each have magic glowing tatoos of sorts, will one appear on Tsukuyomi to signify that person. Maybe next chapter? At least it's February so we have the shortest wait of the year for another chapter.

DemonNeedle
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:51 am

Post by DemonNeedle » Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:04 am

Dizzy wrote:If it really is a pheonix then it will rise from it's own ashes most likely. I perceive this to mean that with Mits down it will all fall on Jr. Also...Ameterasu and Susano each have magic glowing tatoos of sorts, will one appear on Tsukuyomi to signify that person. Maybe next chapter? At least it's February so we have the shortest wait of the year for another chapter.
Could be. It could also refer to man and woman, the chinese version of the phoenix. With the five elements refering to the chinese five elements and Masataka uses chinese martial arts, I would assume that the phoenix is based on the chinese phoenix.


I was kinda thinking what if Tsukiyomi already has a mark of sorts. Since Amaterasu and Susanoo supposedly have magic powers and Tsukiyomi is apparently human, what if that mark was something like Mitsuomi's scar tissue?

lost
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:33 am

Post by lost » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:30 am

wow great chapter, nagi gave me the chills when he showed up. I liked how Mitsuomi just tossed his dad towards Nagi too :lol:

Now we wait a month >_<

About Amaterasu gate, I'm kind of confuse about it, I know Souhaku built a similiar device as he did in the ancient arc but a bigger one, is it working the same way right now? It was suppose to spin it backward to amplify red feather powers right? And is the Amaterasu gate active right now?

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:38 am

lost wrote:wow great chapter, nagi gave me the chills when he showed up. I liked how Mitsuomi just tossed his dad towards Nagi too :lol:

Now we wait a month >_<

About Amaterasu gate, I'm kind of confuse about it, I know Souhaku built a similiar device as he did in the ancient arc but a bigger one, is it working the same way right now? It was suppose to spin it backward to amplify red feather powers right? And is the Amaterasu gate active right now?
I would have to think so, which implies Souhaku knew Maya had the Amaterasu gate. Something, I think, hinted at when Nokimi told Asshat there were 3 super powered people in the Jyukenbu. Now why is he coming after her? And will seeing his love threatened be enough for Nagi to fight back against Souhaku?

lost
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:33 am

Post by lost » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:22 am

I would have to think so, which implies Souhaku knew Maya had the Amaterasu gate. Something, I think, hinted at when Nokimi told Asshat there were 3 super powered people in the Jyukenbu. Now why is he coming after her? And will seeing his love threatened be enough for Nagi to fight back against Souhaku?
Ahh that explains it, I always thought she was hinting at Masataka being the 3rd power user.

I think Nagi might really be gone and merged with Souhaku into that baby, Aya did look really despair when she witness it.

I think it is possible that Nagi might just be acting on instinct and wanted to get to Maya, like shin, they both seems to have a special bond or attraction towards Amaterasu/Maya, and we don't know yet what relationship does susanno have with amaterasu in the tenjo world, are they really siblings or are they husband and wife... or both..?

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:18 am

lost wrote:
I would have to think so, which implies Souhaku knew Maya had the Amaterasu gate. Something, I think, hinted at when Nokimi told Asshat there were 3 super powered people in the Jyukenbu. Now why is he coming after her? And will seeing his love threatened be enough for Nagi to fight back against Souhaku?
Ahh that explains it, I always thought she was hinting at Masataka being the 3rd power user.

I think Nagi might really be gone and merged with Souhaku into that baby, Aya did look really despair when she witness it.

I think it is possible that Nagi might just be acting on instinct and wanted to get to Maya, like shin, they both seems to have a special bond or attraction towards Amaterasu/Maya, and we don't know yet what relationship does susanno have with amaterasu in the tenjo world, are they really siblings or are they husband and wife... or both..?
I think Makiko's reaction was more telling. Siblings, husband and wife? I don't think too much should be read into the mythology part of the names, though I wish the translation of fight 120 and the relationship between Souhaku and Iyo was clearer it confused the hell out of me, none of that made sense.

User avatar
Testament
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Post by Testament » Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:12 pm

Dizzy wrote:If it really is a pheonix then it will rise from it's own ashes most likely. I perceive this to mean that with Mits down it will all fall on Jr. Also...Ameterasu and Susano each have magic glowing tatoos of sorts, will one appear on Tsukuyomi to signify that person. Maybe next chapter? At least it's February so we have the shortest wait of the year for another chapter.
Not really a western phoenix rise from its ashes to life. A chinese one don't, but is rather immortal. Yeah like already mentioned the ying and yang concept which is the foundation of Masataka's fighting style point out as chinese one, I know but is it really the chinese one? The translation seem not making difference or at least no significant.

The most believed at first like asshat, that Masataka is the third power user, but since Amaterasu was revealed as Maya it should already cleared, that at that time Masataka wasn't counted. More than that, it was at that point of the manga never assumed that Masataka can be Tsukoyomi, the most cast believed Mitsoumi as the moon. Anyways Ilike the thought that one is neutral out of the three it make the balance.

For the translation of chapter 120. Fugu already translated 121. YaY FUGU :!:
My soul hard while firm
My mind clear and calm
My wisdom open and wide
My name reaches insignificance
Only one among us can stand under heaven

User avatar
Dizzy
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:39 pm

Post by Dizzy » Thu Feb 19, 2009 5:54 pm

Duh, you guys must be right in it being an asian pheonix since A: everything else folklore wise is asian and B: the way it's drawn sure fits it. It is also supposed to usually be attracted to the dragon apparently (Nagi) and together they represent conflict and harmony....and no one conflicts with Nagi more than Masataka.

And just out of curiousity why must a volume end with a cliffhanger besides the usual that this series has been posing questions without really answering most of them for the majority of it's 19 complete volumes. I'm rooting for some answers come 123 dammit!

User avatar
Ricco
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:14 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Ricco » Thu Feb 19, 2009 6:42 pm

I doubt it'll end in a cliffhanger, we'll probably get to know who or what is controlling the True Warrior's body and he/it will call the fight off with a "we'll finish this tomorrow... at the tournament!"
"Heartless angel or soulles demon NOTHING will stand in my way!"

User avatar
Testament
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Post by Testament » Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:09 pm

another thing that bug me, Nagi is not symbolized as dragon but as snake and as for me those two are not the same.

Personally I am kind of feeling fine, that he isn't symbolized as dragon, since it have something majesty and I can't imagine that with Nagi :lol:
My soul hard while firm
My mind clear and calm
My wisdom open and wide
My name reaches insignificance
Only one among us can stand under heaven

DemonNeedle
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:51 am

Post by DemonNeedle » Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:58 pm

^They symbolize Nagi as more than a snake, there is the Black Dragon as well. But it all really depends on what OG depict the phoenix as, if it even matters anymore. The chinese phoenix is usually depicted as being the unison of Man and Woman, but when they bring up the chinese dragon which they usually depict as a male, they usually make the phoenix female. I really starting to believe that the phoenix is Maya. A resurrection that could put an end to Souichiro's red feather power.
Duh, you guys must be right in it being an asian pheonix since A: everything else folklore wise is asian and B: the way it's drawn sure fits it. It is also supposed to usually be attracted to the dragon apparently (Nagi) and together they represent conflict and harmony....and no one conflicts with Nagi more than Masataka.
That depends. In Ancient China, The dragon and phoenx also symbolized unity and marriage between Man and Woman, with Man being the dragon and woman being the phoenix.

lost
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:33 am

Post by lost » Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:37 pm

hrrm I've been wondering, if Souhaku/Nagi were to revive Maya now, and since Maya's ki is within Reiki, would the first Natsume inside the Reiki and whatever gate thats sealed in Reiki be revived on Maya's body too? I mean it's possible, and Souhaku/First Nagi seems to have a thing towards the first Natsume... maybe they'll make a complete form of Amaterasu?

Since there seems to be a few gates or ki being active within Reiki, what would become of Maya? Its kind of bugging me that it has never been revealed who the true wielder for Reiki is, it's been implying that it is probably Aya, but we don't know why Reiki even exist and its role in the story, and why Souhaku have been ignoring it for thousands of years.

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:45 pm

lost wrote:hrrm I've been wondering, if Souhaku/Nagi were to revive Maya now, and since Maya's ki is within Reiki, would the first Natsume inside the Reiki and whatever gate thats sealed in Reiki be revived on Maya's body too? I mean it's possible, and Souhaku/First Nagi seems to have a thing towards the first Natsume... maybe they'll make a complete form of Amaterasu?

Since there seems to be a few gates or ki being active within Reiki, what would become of Maya? Its kind of bugging me that it has never been revealed who the true wielder for Reiki is, it's been implying that it is probably Aya, but we don't know why Reiki even exist and its role in the story, and why Souhaku have been ignoring it for thousands of years.
There are no gates in Reiki other than Amaterasu's which is now in Maya, and we just found that out. The only other thing we know is Reiki absorbs ki and so can be used against red feathers and other super powered people.
I think everyone is underestimating Mitsuomi, he isn't afraid of Souhaku (he sorta killed him once already), knew his plan, and was preparing for all this(remember Kabane did what he did on purpose so Mits could monitor it). I'd be very surprised if this is really the end for Mitsuomi.

lost
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:33 am

Post by lost » Fri Feb 20, 2009 2:23 am

Well we don't know what kind of twist is waiting for us, it's oh!great afterall, there might be something weird that might come out of the final punch, it's just that he's been implying that this will be the end for Mitsuomi, and that is what Mitsuomi has been striving for, unless Bunshichi changed him somehow.
and damn, I like how close Nagi resembles Shin, the last page with bunshichi standing behind Mitsuomi and charging against Nagi was like Mitsuomi trying to redeem for his mistakes he's done years ago.

So Amaterasu's gate isn't on Reiki anymore? I was kind of confuse after we're told that Amaterasu's dragon gate was sealed within the Reiki, due to that the princess in the ancient arc also had the amaterasu gate like Maya, and she ended up getting the Reiki (and how did it inherit back to Natsume again?), I've always thought there were 2 of the Amaterasu gates or something... and what about Iyo? I thought her ki is in Reiki too, and I thought thats how she's able to talk to Aya.

User avatar
Testament
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Post by Testament » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:40 am

In ancient china there were two phoenix a male one and a female one. Over the time it become one entity and with the dragon as male it become female.

I played with the thought that in the last moment Emi jump between Nagi and Mitsoumi just to repeat the past. :roll: The chance that Maya would do so is low but it would be far more effective for the circle of actions, as both male leads have feelings for her (Maya).
I doubt it will be Masataka :wink:

According to Fugu's translation for 121:
Iyo Natsume is the "guardian" of Reiki. I would assume it is the spirit scabbard of the past, while Maya is the physical of the present, since she is alive in that timeline.
At the same time Iyo is a maiden of Amaterasu/ daughter of Amaterasu. If you think Amaterasu as a god, then the Natsume family are her believers :?:
Since Amaterasu "died" her "power" were sealed in the sword Reiki. Probably the husband of Amaterasu gave his super natural power to his 12 children. Natsume and Kago are one of them.

If you reflect it on the present, the husband of Amaterasu (sun) is Tsukuyomi (moon)? So it would be Takayanagi as the head of the twelve families. Since they themself don't have special powers, I won't count them as child of Amaterasu.
My soul hard while firm
My mind clear and calm
My wisdom open and wide
My name reaches insignificance
Only one among us can stand under heaven

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:00 am

Testament wrote:
According to Fugu's translation for 121:
Iyo Natsume is the "guardian" of Reiki. I would assume it is the spirit scabbard of the past, while Maya is the physical of the present, since she is alive in that timeline.
At the same time Iyo is a maiden of Amaterasu/ daughter of Amaterasu. If you think Amaterasu as a god, then the Natsume family are her believers :?:
Since Amaterasu "died" her "power" were sealed in the sword Reiki. Probably the husband of Amaterasu gave his super natural power to his 12 children. Natsume and Kago are one of them.

If you reflect it on the present, the husband of Amaterasu (sun) is Tsukuyomi (moon)? So it would be Takayanagi as the head of the twelve families. Since they themself don't have special powers, I won't count them as child of Amaterasu.
Except Iyo has the dragon eye Natsume power, Maya doesn't. We don't know she's her daughter/ maiden we don't know who's talking in those bubbles. That's why it's so confusing. Natsume and Kago are definately Susano's decendants but not the "original" Amaterasu. It seems Oh Great has made three seperate lineages, Susano: the red and white feathers, Amaterasu:Japan's Imperial family, and Tsukuyomi:the Takayanagi.
The confusing part is how do the Natsume's relate to Amaterasu now because originally they didn't.

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:02 am

lost wrote:
So Amaterasu's gate isn't on Reiki anymore? I was kind of confuse after we're told that Amaterasu's dragon gate was sealed within the Reiki, due to that the princess in the ancient arc also had the amaterasu gate like Maya, and she ended up getting the Reiki (and how did it inherit back to Natsume again?), I've always thought there were 2 of the Amaterasu gates or something... and what about Iyo? I thought her ki is in Reiki too, and I thought thats how she's able to talk to Aya.

Hopefully Oh Great explains all that because it's very confusing, Iyo is using the dragon eye to talk to the present characters the same way Aya used it to see characters in the past.

User avatar
Testament
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Post by Testament » Fri Feb 20, 2009 10:35 am

kk1 wrote: It seems Oh Great has made three seperate lineages, Susano: the red and white feathers, Amaterasu:Japan's Imperial family, and Tsukuyomi:the Takayanagi.
The confusing part is how do the Natsume's relate to Amaterasu now because originally they didn't.
Hmm so the Takayanagi are the substitue for Susano, so Susano is the godfather of the twelve feathers. If that is the case, then I would assume that the Takayanagi original are not Tsukuyomi but "normal" peasants/humans who then become through their actions as Tsukuyomi, someone who read the moon. While every other cast was decided by the so called fate, the Takayanagi took the destiny in their own hands?
In other words even Sugano (asshat)'s family could rise as Tsukuyomi? Probably the reason they don't appear in the past arc until now?

About the confusing part, the person (I assume it is the whole time only one person) with the bubbles called Susano as his father, the origin of all super-natural abilites. The same person called Amaterasu her mother. During Iyo's introduction, she said she was child of Amaterasu, I would assume so after all she got the gate and she is child of Susano with red feather ability (dragon eye). Lets assume they only had one partner XD

Maybe I forgot something really important (the story is sometimes really confusing and I forget one or two things) where was the part, that Natsume is not related to Amaterasu?
[/b]
My soul hard while firm
My mind clear and calm
My wisdom open and wide
My name reaches insignificance
Only one among us can stand under heaven

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:59 am

Testament wrote:
kk1 wrote: It seems Oh Great has made three seperate lineages, Susano: the red and white feathers, Amaterasu:Japan's Imperial family, and Tsukuyomi:the Takayanagi.
The confusing part is how do the Natsume's relate to Amaterasu now because originally they didn't.
Hmm so the Takayanagi are the substitue for Susano, so Susano is the godfather of the twelve feathers. If that is the case, then I would assume that the Takayanagi original are not Tsukuyomi but "normal" peasants/humans who then become through their actions as Tsukuyomi, someone who read the moon. While every other cast was decided by the so called fate, the Takayanagi took the destiny in their own hands?
In other words even Sugano (asshat)'s family could rise as Tsukuyomi? Probably the reason they don't appear in the past arc until now?

About the confusing part, the person (I assume it is the whole time only one person) with the bubbles called Susano as his father, the origin of all super-natural abilites. The same person called Amaterasu her mother. During Iyo's introduction, she said she was child of Amaterasu, I would assume so after all she got the gate and she is child of Susano with red feather ability (dragon eye). Lets assume they only had one partner XD

Maybe I forgot something really important (the story is sometimes really confusing and I forget one or two things) where was the part, that Natsume is not related to Amaterasu?
[/b]
No in the UJ special it states the Takayanagi are descended from the heross of Japan's past not peasants.

When did they ever say the Natsumes were related to Amaterasu? We saw the first person with her gate in the past arc was a princess and the Natsumes already existed and already had Reiki.

User avatar
Testament
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Post by Testament » Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:39 pm

kk1 wrote: No in the UJ special it states the Takayanagi are descended from the heross of Japan's past not peasants.

When did they ever say the Natsumes were related to Amaterasu? We saw the first person with her gate in the past arc was a princess and the Natsumes already existed and already had Reiki.
Until now they don't appeared in the past arcs :( . Alright, the Takayanagi were heroes in the past, but what is hero mean here? Either is he someone who have unusual power and is not declared as demon, or as a man who overcome difficult situation with his own power (change something like "fate") and "luckily" someone witness it as proof? There are some more thoughts, but that would go much to far off I think. After all these are just my thoughts about it. So my conclude would be if Sugano's ancestors would have doing something heroic, they could become Tsukuyomi too? And again, the other cast are already filled in.

Didn't I write it down already? Iyo Natsume introduced it by herself in chapter 121. Alright, it isn't stated that the believers of Amaterasu shrine are descends of the Amaterasu themselves.
Testament wrote: About the confusing part, the person (I assume it is the whole time only one person) with the bubbles called Susano as his father, the origin of all super-natural abilites. The same person called Amaterasu her mother. During Iyo's introduction, she said she was child of Amaterasu, I would assume so after all she got the gate and she is child of Susano with red feather ability (dragon eye).
Just to make clear, I didn't write that the unkown person is Iyo Natsume. It could be, but you stated something that exclude her with high probability.
If the problem is that why only Natsume have Amaterasu's ability, I can't think something that would fit much enough, maybe just happen like that?
My soul hard while firm
My mind clear and calm
My wisdom open and wide
My name reaches insignificance
Only one among us can stand under heaven

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 5:14 pm

Testament wrote:
Didn't I write it down already? Iyo Natsume introduced it by herself in chapter 121. Alright, it isn't stated that the believers of Amaterasu shrine are descends of the Amaterasu themselves.
Senhime was a real person and she did have a daughter, her name was Katsuhime. And ALL members of the Japanese imperial family claim descent from Amaterasu all the way back to the first Emperor Jimmu.



Edit: I think I know what's wrong it's that I'm assuming Iyo is from after the past arc where she must be from before the past arc where Souhaku gets killed, OK that makes more sense. Nevermind I'm wrong :wink:

User avatar
Testament
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Post by Testament » Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:14 pm

kk1 wrote:Senhime was a real person and she did have a daughter, her name was Katsuhime. And ALL members of the Japanese imperial family claim descent from Amaterasu all the way back to the first Emperor Jimmu.



Edit: I think I know what's wrong it's that I'm assuming Iyo is from after the past arc where she must be from before the past arc where Souhaku gets killed, OK that makes more sense. Nevermind I'm wrong :wink:
Now you confuse me. :s
Well if you follow the assumptions I wrote you are not wrong. All special ability user from the 12 families are descent of Amaterasu (mother) and Susano (father).
My soul hard while firm
My mind clear and calm
My wisdom open and wide
My name reaches insignificance
Only one among us can stand under heaven

EliteF22
Senpai
Senpai
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:16 pm

Post by EliteF22 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 8:53 pm

The phoenix crest crumbling is actually a parallel with what happened in the past arc when Mits did his little hostile takeover. I take it to mean a beginning of a new era of the phoenix under a new leader and I don't think it will be Masa either who takes over. This feels like Oh! Greats swan song for the Takayanagi's leadership of the families. What kind of power structure that comes out of the conflict is locked up in Oh! Greats head at the moment. :twisted:

Hasn't Oh! Great already said that all the red feathers were descended from Susano and that Amaterasu was his sister?

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:37 pm

EliteF22 wrote:The phoenix crest crumbling is actually a parallel with what happened in the past arc when Mits did his little hostile takeover. I take it to mean a beginning of a new era of the phoenix under a new leader and I don't think it will be Masa either who takes over. This feels like Oh! Greats swan song for the Takayanagi's leadership of the families. What kind of power structure that comes out of the conflict is locked up in Oh! Greats head at the moment. :twisted:

Hasn't Oh! Great already said that all the red feathers were descended from Susano and that Amaterasu was his sister?
Well that's what it symbolized last time and it's about time for Masataka to take the spotlight (besides Nagi asked him to kick his ass if he couldn't beat his dad).

And yes he has made it clear the 12 families are Susanoo's descendents which is how Nagi was able to reunite them and bring him back.
Fight 120 seems to show the 1st generation of Susanoo's kids, if I have my mythology right the guy going to Izumo is ÅŒkuninushi, Susanoo's son ,he calls Souhaku brother, so that makes sense. Amaterasu having a kid with Susanoo (Iyo) is kinda weird though since they were brother and sister (though in Oh Great's TT mythology that hasn't been established). So I guess you're right Testament though I'm gonna guess they're all maybe half-siblings.

lost
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:33 am

Post by lost » Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:23 am

The bubbles that called Amaterasu mother was from Iyo, I think, I agree there're probably 3 seperate lineages, though there're some confusing parts about them:

- the 12 families bloodline were descendants of susanno and all women and daughters of the 8 families susanno raped according to the tale from Tetsuhito's family, so the bloodline were spread in fragments.

-Natsume is probably Amaterasu's descendant since Iyo called her mother, the one thing I don't understand is why the imperial family has the amaterasu's gate, and how are they related to Natsume? We don't know if amaterasu's gate is inherited by blood or not either because Ichiyo said it's a rare dragon gate that spins backward every now and then, causing a weird mark on a person's chest, so it *could* be just any gate but somehow it is spinning backward, and that could explain why Maya does not have dragoneye, because her gate was backward instead (I could be completely off this one because I do not know how the gates work technically in the tenjo world...)

There's also another possibility, I'm thinking maybe amaterasu have another bloodline someplace else (imperial bloodline unrelated to Susan), and somehow still gives birth to the Natsumes with Susan, I assume that might work since according to Ichiyo when he was reading the Kojiki, he said Susanno captured Amaterasu, trying to cause an uprising and bring a civil war but failed (the skinned horse), so amaterasu might be from the imperial from the beginning since they're involved with all these political stuff, Susanno might've captured Amaterasu and the two of them gave birth to natsume in the process? However I don't know if Amaterasu is a silbing to susan or not, but I think it's plausible that Amaterasu's gate could be inherited to the Imperial family by birth, while susanno captured amaterasu and sealed her power into Reiki and gave brith to Natsume(before or after, who knows...)

- Tsukiyomi/Takayanagi, this is even more confusing if it's a complete seperate lineage, because oh!great said that Susanno was the ancestor of Takayanagi, it's not until Tetsuhito mention the tale or lore til we know the 12 families were also the descendants of susanno, but I'm leaning towards the theory that susanno might just be a godfather for Takayanagi like Testament has said, if this were true, maybe he and Tsukiyomi were actually good friends/rival and he agree to have Tsukiyomi be the leader type character, that could be in parallel to the bond between Shin/Nagi (susanno's blood) and Mitsuomi/Masataka (Tsukiyomi), since it happend twice that the red feather wanted to put their trust onto Takayanagi to put a stop to the whole thing, not to mention the two Takayanagis, shin, and nagi all seems to have a thing for Maya/Aya/Amaterasu... maybe Susanno and Tsuikiyomi fought over Amaterasu as well, or Tsukiyomi might actually be the imperial family... *head explodes*

Edit: this is completely unrelated but it's been bugging me for a while, anyone noticed in chapter 95... oh!great blocked this person's face out purposely? Everyone, popular historical figures and fictional characters (or ones that base loosely on historical figures) had shown their faces but this guy, I did a search on wiki and it seems that he shared thes same first name as Senhime's first husband (and possibly the same dude since he killed himself in a fire):
http://i540.photobucket.com/albums/gg34 ... 95p041.png
Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyotomi_Hideyori
We know almost everyone shares a similar role as the characters we have now in the present, maybe this guy is related to someone in the present? He just seems a little weird to be so mysterious when everyone else showed their faces.

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:04 pm

Well it's possible Amaterasu is the ancestor of both the Natsumes and the family that led to Senhime. You have to realize Iyo, and Souhaku are born over a thousand years before Senhime. The only part I don't get is even though Amaterasu's power is stored in Reiki people like Senhime can still be born with it? So was Maya born with it or did she just gain it when she "sacrificed" herself to Reiki?

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:37 pm

I was just rereading some old chapters and they discuss the Phoenix crest in fight 91 and talk about the western version of it dying and being reborn in flames so it's the western one.

lost
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 66
Joined: Fri Jun 13, 2003 4:33 am

Post by lost » Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:54 pm

kk1 wrote:Well it's possible Amaterasu is the ancestor of both the Natsumes and the family that led to Senhime. You have to realize Iyo, and Souhaku are born over a thousand years before Senhime. The only part I don't get is even though Amaterasu's power is stored in Reiki people like Senhime can still be born with it? So was Maya born with it or did she just gain it when she "sacrificed" herself to Reiki?
I think she was born with it, because Bunshichi said something along the lines of "Is this why Shin stuck to her like a baby?" when the symbol showed up, implying that she had Amaterasu's power to begin with, and the reason why shin was attracted to her (to calm his power down), though that doesn't really explain why there're 2 gates, and why Maya has it only 400 years after Senhime when Ichiyo said it usually takes a thousand years for someone with such a gate to show up, it almost seems as that her parents know about her gate too, hence giving Reiki to her.

User avatar
aikuR
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:18 am

Post by aikuR » Mon Feb 23, 2009 10:25 am

This might just be me cause I'm re-reading the older arcs; but i think that it looks like Shin and not Souichiro at the end of this chapter. I have only an elementary Japanese reading level, does it say that that is Souichiro or could it be Shin (cause i want Shin back)

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Mon Feb 23, 2009 1:08 pm

aikuR wrote:This might just be me cause I'm re-reading the older arcs; but i think that it looks like Shin and not Souichiro at the end of this chapter. I have only an elementary Japanese reading level, does it say that that is Souichiro or could it be Shin (cause i want Shin back)

Shin's dead, baby. :wink:

User avatar
Dizzy
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 72
Joined: Mon Apr 21, 2008 6:39 pm

Post by Dizzy » Mon Feb 23, 2009 5:15 pm

The upgraded raw has shown up online. As for the guy in fight 95, indeed it is curious how his face is never shown (I think he's in at least one other chapter at still no face), I wonder if it's really relevant though (hopefully it is, I like surprises). Someone else pointed out some mystery person riding in a Takayanagi car from back around the Bunshichi Shin fight and he is still a complete non factor as far as I know.

Dgames
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 100
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:25 am
Location: Portugal

Post by Dgames » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:12 am

wasn't the building falling? i mean 3 chapters ago it was crumbling due to kabane power then souhako/souchiro have the time to get to the top without it falling??? something wrong or maybe i miss something?

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Sat Feb 28, 2009 4:13 pm

Dgames wrote:wasn't the building falling? i mean 3 chapters ago it was crumbling due to kabane power then souhako/souchiro have the time to get to the top without it falling??? something wrong or maybe i miss something?
Well, Kabane cut all the supports then it sorta tilted then Inue made the Takayanagi guys hold it up, of course then Nagi told everyone to get out and we didn't get to see what he did next. Maybe he stole Kabane's power and reinforced it, who knows?

Sarex
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:12 am

Post by Sarex » Sat Feb 28, 2009 6:18 pm

kk1 wrote:
Dgames wrote:wasn't the building falling? i mean 3 chapters ago it was crumbling due to kabane power then souhako/souchiro have the time to get to the top without it falling??? something wrong or maybe i miss something?
Well, Kabane cut all the supports then it sorta tilted then Inue made the Takayanagi guys hold it up, of course then Nagi told everyone to get out and we didn't get to see what he did next. Maybe he stole Kabane's power and reinforced it, who knows?

Or maybe he already has the power.(I mean come on 100 abilities :shock: )

DemonNeedle
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:51 am

Post by DemonNeedle » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:03 pm

Sarex wrote:
kk1 wrote:
Dgames wrote:wasn't the building falling? i mean 3 chapters ago it was crumbling due to kabane power then souhako/souchiro have the time to get to the top without it falling??? something wrong or maybe i miss something?
Well, Kabane cut all the supports then it sorta tilted then Inue made the Takayanagi guys hold it up, of course then Nagi told everyone to get out and we didn't get to see what he did next. Maybe he stole Kabane's power and reinforced it, who knows?

Or maybe he already has the power.(I mean come on 100 abilities :shock: )
He could possibly have the power from the main Kabane branch, but it's probably not as powerful as Hirohiko. Otherwise, Souichiro probably doesn't have Hirohiko's power. Hirohiko was able to use his power after his fight with Souichiro.

User avatar
Testament
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 93
Joined: Thu Jul 24, 2008 5:12 pm

Post by Testament » Sat Feb 28, 2009 7:44 pm

Dgames wrote:wasn't the building falling? i mean 3 chapters ago it was crumbling due to kabane power then souhako/souchiro have the time to get to the top without it falling??? something wrong or maybe i miss something?
I guess it is all show off... to make the impression of a much greater power. Don't follow a logic route all in all... in any case if you wish for an explaination: A super-natural power stabilzed the top floor back to normal without even allow Maya who is immobilzed (not be confined to the couch) on the couch fall from it (no wait the white sheet actually pinned her hard on the couch! :roll: ), though it was shown that the guys of Mitsoumi couldn't stand while they could move as Martial artist with some skills....
My soul hard while firm
My mind clear and calm
My wisdom open and wide
My name reaches insignificance
Only one among us can stand under heaven

Sarex
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 72
Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:12 am

Post by Sarex » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:16 am

Testament wrote:
Dgames wrote:wasn't the building falling? i mean 3 chapters ago it was crumbling due to kabane power then souhako/souchiro have the time to get to the top without it falling??? something wrong or maybe i miss something?
I guess it is all show off... to make the impression of a much greater power. Don't follow a logic route all in all... in any case if you wish for an explaination: A super-natural power stabilzed the top floor back to normal without even allow Maya who is immobilzed (not be confined to the couch) on the couch fall from it (no wait the white sheet actually pinned her hard on the couch! :roll: ), though it was shown that the guys of Mitsoumi couldn't stand while they could move as Martial artist with some skills....
I thought about it and came up with this, it's pride(yes pride)

Mayas pride which is really big kept her from falling and Souhakus pride is so big that not only did he stay up but so did the building :D :D :D

User avatar
Ricco
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 109
Joined: Thu Jun 23, 2005 9:14 pm
Location: Canada

Post by Ricco » Sun Mar 01, 2009 3:14 pm

Please, Maya's barely covered body can keep anything "erect", even tall buildings. Have you looked at her? :shock:
"Heartless angel or soulles demon NOTHING will stand in my way!"

Post Reply