Incest comment.

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

Moderator: FuguTabetai

Post Reply
Rain_Cassidy
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 44
Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2003 11:17 pm

Incest comment.

Post by Rain_Cassidy »

I don't find it "creepy", even that big panel where Shin grabs Maya from his bed. I find all of it quite poignant.

Most lower quality boys' manga deal with rape/incest/child_molestation in a very casual and callous way, like dressing for the violence. It numbs you to it and you don't think about it or how it's repulsive. TT intertwines it into the story, it drives plots and motivations, and it makes you think about it. That's when you say "eww".

But, that's how all great tragedies are. The rise and fall of Oedipus wouldn't be much fun without the mother variable, yet ppl don't call Greek plays repulsive/deviant/etc. Yet they're full of screwed-up agendas. The reason they're great is because the deviancy is part of the drama, not just gratuity.

I'm not condoning Shin's desires, but OhGreat writes him with such sensitivity that you empathize. The emperor kills his father and lusts after his sister in Gladiator, and he's set up as an irreconcileable villain primed to be taken out in spectacular fashion by Russel Crowe. Shin kills his parents and wants his sister, but I don't hate him. He's a tragic character and I still root for him.

In fact, it's hard to love/hate anyone in TT. They're all complicated. One day you love one and hate the other, and when the next chapter comes out, you find that it's not simply love him/ hate her anymore. Certainly, Maya's admirers now have to take into account her compliance in an incestuous relationship. But if even I can love Shin for all of his flaws, how can Maya not do the same?

I love TT. OhGreat can draw as many fanservice posters as he wants; he needs to make the money off of drooling fanboys so he can continue TT's story. :P
standa-man
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:49 pm

Post by standa-man »

I think Rain brings up a good point about incestuous relationships not really being inherently creepy. I'm not condoning them either, but it's only a standard set by modern culture. In the past royal families often married siblings or relatives to maintain a pure bloodline.

As for Shin and Maya's relationship, it's definitely dysfunctional but all the more complex because they're siblings. I think Maya's just kinda caught in a tough spot. I mean, she knows Shin so screwed up because of some obsession with her so she wants to do what she can to fix that. But he's still her big bro who's taken care of her so she can't help but be sympathetic. It's interesting to me though that Shin hasn't shown any outright jealousy towards Mitsuomi yet. He did confess that he might fall for Maya at the beginning of the past arc.
ahaha
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 2:18 pm

Re: Incest comment.

Post by ahaha »

Rain_Cassidy wrote: I love TT. OhGreat can draw as many fanservice posters as he wants; he needs to make the money off of drooling fanboys so he can continue TT's story. :P
you kinda miss the part of making money off drooling fangirls as well :wink:
Nen_e
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Feb 21, 2003 2:29 am

Inces.

Post by Nen_e »

Well, this is my first post, and I'm glad to star with a topic such as taboo relations is.
From my point of view all incestuous relations are morally wrong. Yes, we can understand them, even accept them. I agree that Oh Great has done a great job in the way he is handling this matter in TT. This, however, doesn't implie that this kind of relation in right.
Let mi explain my reasoning. It is more or less kind of what Plato and Aristotle said. What is "normal"? Etymologically, it is everything that answers to the norm. Now then, the norm, taken as an abstract concept, is always right. Ok, some norms are wrong. But those are the norms imposed by men. It is clearly seen, as you observe reality, that there are certain norms that doesn't depend on men. They are natural laws, and these are always right. Going against them is going against our own nature. Now, I assume that everybody here thinks that the natural enviorment to rise a child is a good family. I don't belive that a child rised in an incestuous family can easily turn out right. History has given us examples. Why do I emphasize rising of children? Because clearly, man has three main needs o abilities: eat, grow, and reproduce.
Because of this, and other things, I belive incest is abnormal. As normal responds what is good, an moral is the "good-doing", incest is morally wrong. Man can
standa-man
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 114
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 9:49 pm

Post by standa-man »

Wow looks like you put some thought into your manga. I never expect that much from it usually and whenever I actually learn something I'm pleasantly surprised.
To respond to your analysis, Nen_e, you don't explain why an incestuous family is not as able to raise a good child. What are some of these historical examples you speak of. Of course there is the idea that bad genes are more likely to be propagated through incest, but you seem to be talking more about a social environment.
Anyways, enjoy TT taboos and all. Oh! Great probably has experience with taboo things having previously drawn erotic manga (which is probably why he's so good at drawing all those pinups).
User avatar
Agent_Wax
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:24 am

Post by Agent_Wax »

[quote]They are natural laws, and these are always right. Going against them is going against our own nature. Now, I assume that everybody here thinks that the natural enviorment to rise a child is a good family. I don't belive that a child rised in an incestuous family can easily turn out right. History has given us examples. Why do I emphasize rising of children? Because clearly, man has three main needs o abilities: eat, grow, and reproduce.
Because of this, and other things, I belive incest is abnormal. As normal responds what is good, an moral is the "good-doing", incest is morally wrong. Man can
User avatar
brainplagued
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 10
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:44 pm
Location: Guess!!! I'll give you a clue: it's a trifle warm...

Post by brainplagued »

incest... wow...

the whole "natural" thing... animals do it with siblings fairly often...

but incestuous relationships have a much bigger capacity for harm built
into them. Usually there's already a filial love that exists between the
two partners and (let's face it) romantic love is *much* less stable than
the sibling love. so it's a lot easier for people to be hurt and the betrayal
cuts so much deeper...

if you want to see incest that turns out okay... sort of...
read angel sanctuary!!!!

if you want to see how things can go *wrong*...
just check out Jerry Springer...
there's about 1 show a week that has incest of some sort...
midget incest...
prostitute incest...
pimp incest...
transexual incest...
pimping transexual whoring midget incest... :roll:
and the most common incest of all:
white trailer trash incest!!!!!
w0000000t....
i suppose...
Positions Available
Reliable Minion Wanted
Experience and References a Must!
Call (666) 666-4666
User avatar
FuguTabetai
Shifu
Shifu
Posts: 2589
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:45 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by FuguTabetai »

Just to interject here, I don't think Maya and Shin actually had sex or anything. She is just aware of her brother's feelings for her.... Which are not of the familiar sort.

fugu
Nataku-Ghost
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Feb 28, 2003 6:20 am
Location: somewhere in Minnesota

Post by Nataku-Ghost »

I don't think they are incest. More likely that Shin got some extreme case of sister complex. You know those overly loving and overprotective brother. A little amount of incest love maybe involved in Shin heart, but Maya obviously doesn't accept shin's love. OH well, just read and enjoy aniway, it is after all a fiction work. :D
Post Reply