TenTen Raw Anime Episode

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Post by shouki »

hitori wrote:
shouki wrote:I'm trying to think of some others where the anime is better than the original manga, but nothing springs to mind. This is just my opinion of course... I tend to prefer books anyway.
I can make some recommendations, if you want to check out some well made book to anime conversions. :D .
Thanks for the list hitori.

BTW I was specifically referring to original manga to anime conversions, not Japanese books in general. (which is why I didn't say just "anime conversions")

My Japanese isn't yet good enough to read novels but novel to anime conversions do seem to be quite a bit better on average to me. I particularly like the Crest of the Stars series (and follow-ons) and would dealy like to see some more. From what I've seen though, the original Slayers novels are better than the TV series.

Planetes - seen a bit of the manga. Didn't seem quite like my scene... but maybe I'll check it out.

Keroro Gunsou - haven't seen at all. maybe I'll check it out. The vague impression I got was that it's very slapstick, which I don't like too much.

Air Master - seen the anime, liked it. Almost bought the manga when I saw it on sale...

Gals! - Seen a bit of both. From what I've seen the anime version is pretty good, though I'm not sure if it's better than the manga.

Azumanga Daioh - should have remebered this. I'd say that the anime is better, though both are excellent.

Ghost in the Shell - seen all the manga, SAC TV series and most of "2nd Gig". I like the anime (though not Makoto's character design in the first series) but I liked the plot of the manga better.

Read or Die - original is novels I'm pretty sure, not the so-so manga. I love the OVAs (though a bit disappointed with ep 3). Wish I could read the novels...

Sentou Yousei Yukikaze - seen a bit of this, and didn't like it...

Scrapped Princess - I liked the TV series a lot (though felt rather let down by the ending).


Going back to my "original manga better than anime" comments, I thought of another one - I think the Hellsing anime is very good (though not so much the 2nd half which wasn't based on the manga). On balance I'd say it's better than the original.

I've also got some of the manga for Shura no Toki on order... I'll have to wait and see how that compares with the anime, which I like a lot.

So... I'm not against original manga to anime conversions... but often feel quite let down. But this doesn't stop me from wishing for a TV series of "Skip Beat!" for example.
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Post by hitori »

shouki wrote:Going back to my "original manga better than anime" comments, I thought of another one - I think the Hellsing anime is very good (though not so much the 2nd half which wasn't based on the manga). On balance I'd say it's better than the original.

I've also got some of the manga for Shura no Toki on order... I'll have to wait and see how that compares with the anime, which I like a lot.
You thought Hellsing was good?
The first few episodes maybe, but it just kept going down hill after that in my opinion.
But then you seem to have a different taste than me. :D

Keroro Gunsou is Japanese humor, wouldn't say slapstick.
Might not be for people not familiar with it.
For instance, do you know what food theme is associated with Sentai series? :wink:

Shura to Ki...I have mixed feelings about that series.
Animation was a letdown to me.
But I guess it brought the Shura series to mainstream...
Hope you like the comic books.
The artwork may look weird but you'll get used to it I think.

If you liked the Crest of the Stars series, do try to read the novels.
The anime did a great job putting faces on the characters and for some, even brought them to life.
And the space battle scenes blew me away, of course.
But there is so many things missing in the short anime series...
I wish they made one or two more seasons.
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Post by shouki »

hitori wrote:
shouki wrote:Going back to my "original manga better than anime" comments, I thought of another one - I think the Hellsing anime is very good (though not so much the 2nd half which wasn't based on the manga). On balance I'd say it's better than the original.
You thought Hellsing was good?
The first few episodes maybe, but it just kept going down hill after that in my opinion.
But then you seem to have a different taste than me. :D
The stuff based on the manga was all good, though they missed off some good bits in the manga. The rest was more variable... (some was cool, some was poor).

One annoying thing in general for me is how London is depicted - since I live in London! In that regard, both the manga and anime seem 100 years out of date for the most part...

hitori wrote:Keroro Gunsou is Japanese humor, wouldn't say slapstick.
Might not be for people not familiar with it.
For instance, do you know what food theme is associated with Sentai series? :wink:
Sentai series? I don't know what you mean by that.

hitori wrote:If you liked the Crest of the Stars series, do try to read the novels.
The anime did a great job putting faces on the characters and for some, even brought them to life.
And the space battle scenes blew me away, of course.
But there is so many things missing in the short anime series...
I wish they made one or two more seasons.
I loved Crest of the Stars... Of the 3 TV series, I liked the 2nd the best, but they were all great and the different settings were interesting.

However, my Japanese isn't yet good enough to read novels. Need to learn more kanji - I'm picking them up at a fair rate, but I'm still somewhat dependant on furigana.
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Post by pv82 »

I loved Crest of the Stars... Of the 3 TV series, I liked the 2nd the best, but they were all great and the different settings were interesting.

However, my Japanese isn't yet good enough to read novels. Need to learn more kanji - I'm picking them up at a fair rate, but I'm still somewhat dependant on furigana.
Doesn't tokyopop have the manga in English?

Crest of stars is really cool, I liked the second one but the third was kinda a let down.
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Post by Banorac »

Banorac wrote:
Agent_Wax wrote:Image


Odd. I have a sudden craving for milk...

:twisted:
I knew I saw something like this before, it looks just like an Oh Great! artwork from Himiko Den.
I'll post the scan later this week ( my scanner here doesn't work )
Here it is :

Image

See the ressemblance ? ^^
Image
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Post by MrProphet »

Seikai no Monshou (Crest of the Stars) is actually a novel to anime to manga conversion. I would agree that the second season is the best (it has a lot of Admiral Sporh, after all 8)).

As for the rest. Well, so far I like the series Tenjou Tenge a lot. It has a compelling story, great character designs, fine musical score. My only gripe so far is the lack of good action sequences. But otherwise, I think it is certainly a passable manga-to-anime conversion.

As for AirMaster... oh, don't even get me started. It had nice action... but the character disigns... wow, I hated them so much. So, comparing TJTG to AirMaster is completely pointless for me. TJTG wins hands down in my department.
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Post by pv82 »

Banorac wrote:
Banorac wrote:
Agent_Wax wrote:Image


Odd. I have a sudden craving for milk...

:twisted:
I knew I saw something like this before, it looks just like an Oh Great! artwork from Himiko Den.
I'll post the scan later this week ( my scanner here doesn't work )
Here it is :

Image

See the ressemblance ? ^^
I didn't know masataka had a sword :P :lol:
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Post by FuguTabetai »

MrProphet wrote: As for AirMaster... oh, don't even get me started. It had nice action... but the character disigns... wow, I hated them so much.
I am so with you on that.
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Post by Rev »

I didn't know masataka had a sword :P :lol:

not only does he look like masakata but he also acts like him too.
at the time I didn't know who did Himiko Den but I was so piss when it was only one volume. I wonder why oh great! didn't do more, it would of been a hit.
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Post by Banorac »

Rev wrote:
I didn't know masataka had a sword :P :lol:

not only does he look like masakata but he also acts like him too.
at the time I didn't know who did Himiko Den but I was so piss when it was only one volume. I wonder why oh great! didn't do more, it would of been a hit.
Yeah, I know, Kutani looks just like Masataka, doesn't he :D

Just goes to show that Masa is so good he surpasses the every day life of one manga to live another one alongside his own in another manga :twisted:

... hm, my rambling mind again :)

Anyway, I was pretty stunned too when I reached the end and had something like 'This is it?'

So, yeah, I'd really liked to have seen more of Himiko-Den by Oh Great! ...

I wanted to look into the anime, but I can't find any good information and the shop only has a full season for sale, which isn't too cheap ...
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Post by MrProphet »

Ha-ha-ha, the Beautiful Flash failed. :shock:

Episode 22 was another portion of some of the best TenTen stuff. I've compared what we had in the episode with the manga chapters and interestingly enough, they follow it almost word to word.

So I guess it's no good complaining about the fights (they were very short), since it's exactly the same thing Oh!Great did.

Like I predicted before, Episode 22 deals with the final rounds of the Election Tournament. Bunshichi and Asshat are slugging it out with the clubs, while Maya and Shin have a beautifully drawn scene together at the old dungeon underneath the Natsume residence.

A couple of awesome scenes there, with the Beautiful Flash, with Shin and Maya, with Shin killing Fu and the final scene in the Natsume house with Mitsuomi and Maya. If you want to know what happened, just reread the manga for mid-volume 7. It's exactly the same thing!

Anyway, Mitsuomi defeats the Bruce Lee-lookalike and his buddies, and is now seriously pissed at Shin. Why? Because Shin killed Fu and Maya is afraid. Huh? Honestly, I never understood what happened to Mitsuomi? Wasn't his reason for defeating Shin to prove his power? And inderectly to "win" Maya? Why was he so sad to see Fu go?

One explanation I see is that he saw Fu dead and thought that he, the valiant knight, must now protect Maya from her brother, who has gone bonkers. Was that it?

Anyway, I liked the episode. It wasn't great or anything from an objective point of view, but TJTG fans will like it. Anyway, this whole series seems to be geared toward hardcore fans, since I don't see how casual anime fan would appreciate it.... It just seems kind of mediocre, except for cool character designs and lots of ecchi.

But I love it anyway. 8)
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Post by moyism »

tt17 subbed out
http://www.anime-station.org/torrents/T ... vi.torrent

btw, sorry bout being behind on the screencaps. hehe.
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Post by Shinpachi »

FuguTabetai wrote:
MrProphet wrote: As for AirMaster... oh, don't even get me started. It had nice action... but the character disigns... wow, I hated them so much.
I am so with you on that.
Oh psshh, how could you not find a single character in Airmaster to like? There were so many! Granted the quality got low (everyone knows they blew much of their budget on the first episode), but how can ya not love Lucha Master or Tsukio? And how many series have a guy that fights with a BMX? (gotta love the part where that one guy punches right through the spokes and he starts peddling his ass off to rip up his arm.) LUCHA!!
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Post by MrProphet »

Episode 23.

Wow, what a cool episode. And what a sad episode at the same time. You guys all know what happened, but let me go through the numbers.

Interestingly enough, they start with material that wasn't in the manga. Mitsuomi and Mana are talking on the rooftop regarding Mitsuomi's superstrenght and his 3-minute limit.

Meanwhile, Shin takes Maya for a ride to the sea to talk about pretty much nothing in particular. They share a very tender momenet together, which was rather similar to the earlier Mitsuomi/Maya stuff. Obviously, the creators are trying to establish the connection, and in my opinion, they did a tremendous job. Seeing how Shin looks at Maya while she is playing in the ocean, well, our favourite sociopath is soooo obviously in loooooove. 8)

A couple other new scenes happen afterwards. Shin formally asks the Todou Principal to sanction a match between him and Mitsuomi, for the school presidensy. In the Takayanagi HQ, Dougen is sitting alone, looking at Reiki, and discussing his intentions. He spells out some of the stuff about the True Warrior (Shin no Bujin). For the first time in the anime, this scene establishes Mitsuomi as the Warrior.

All those additions to the manga have made, in my opinion, a tremendous job at establishing a lot of motivations before the final confrontation. We've seen Mitsuomi's side of the argument, we've heard Shin's position on why he wants to fight, and we've heard for the Devil himself (Dugen) about why was this all necessary. This was definitely not filler.

The rest of the episode is straight from the manga. Asshat takes Maya out to make the final Jyuukenbu group photo. Everyone is depressed, so Bunshichi lightens the mood with a couple Bunshichi-style jokes. I think they changes the tune here a bit. In the manga, this scene happened right after the Shin/Mitsuomi confrontation, and the mood was downright murderuous, with a lot of tension flying in the air. With the addition of the aforementioned scenes, Shin and Mitsuomi seem to be more like sulking that evil.

Anyway, Asshat takes their picture and... BAM... we jump straight to the fight. Mitsuomi is simply owning Shin, who tries a couple of comebacks but generally fails. If you were ever wondering why Maya was so pissed with Mitsuomi, well, there was your asnwer. Takayanagi was acting pretty evil thoughout the whole match, not sparing Shin even one bit. Maya tried to stop him, but Mana bitchslapped her, called her "baka imouto" (stupid little sister) and the rest.

Well, you all know what happens... Mitsuomi goes for the killing blow, Mana jumps in from of him to protect Shin. Mitsuomi relaxes for a second, turns around, and then Shin produces the largest freaking FORGED NEEDLE attack we've seen so far, right through Mana. Needless to say that Mitsuomi is injured, while Mana is dying right there. Shin is devastated, and not only because of what he has done.

This was done a bit different from the manga. In the manga, we only see Shin "dragon-eye'ed" up and evil-looking, when he charges up the Forged Needle. In the anime we see that Shin was quite sane and very sad. Clearly, he understands that he is killing Mana and he doesn't feel to happy about it. He was definitely not in his berserk-mode in that very second.

Well, it's a pretty sad and beautiful scene there, with Shin's tears intemingling with Mana's blood on the floor. You really have to see it to apprectiate it. I certainly think that this was done as well as it was in the manga, if not better.

It all ends with Shin kissing Mana and both lying dead on the floor.

Next episode is Mitsuomi's rebellion against his father, and then back to the present arc, as Maya, Mitsuomi and the rest of the gang are still looking for Aya.

PS The fight scenes were still kinda slo-mo, but definitely better than most. Shin/Mitsuomi fight was pretty cool in inself, especially in the beginning, where they don't talk as much.
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Post by MrProphet »

In other news, the anime's official webpage has this interesting splash-screen.

I don't think too many girls are fans of TJTG, but for those of you who swing that way, Bunshichi is displaying is abs and Mitsuomi shows some of his rear end. :roll: Bleh... why is Maya covered?! :?

Image

Whoever drew Aya, they seriously need to visit an anatomy class. :twisted:

Cusiously, Bob is depicted with his hairdo from Volume 11. Does that mean.... wow, we can hope...
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Post by FuguTabetai »

That's the poster from the Tenjo Tenge Special. There is a large version included in the translation I did off of pv82's scans.
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Post by Banorac »

I think it's a good thing Tawara is showing off his muscles ...

... not that i'm in to that kind of thing, but I can use the anatomy refference :twisted:
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Post by EliteF22 »

Episode 23. Nice episode. Finally the animators were able to again do a fight that didn't totally look like a slide slow. Some extra scenes thrown in that filled in some more story about that final summer with Shin. Overall one of the best episodes of the latter half of the season.

Image
Oh, by the way, does anyone know where I can find the source image of the above cropped picture. Its nice except, Aya in the background ruins it.
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Post by v(^o^)v »

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Post by kagezuchi »

just watched ep 23, and it reinforces my opinion that kuzunoha was a dumb broad for not letting bunischi or maya stop the fight. a well-intentioned dumb broad, but a dumb broad nonetheless. she already said/knew that shin had not changed one bit since his early days. but she still thinks that shin would suddenly become a nice guy and not use ryuugan against mitsuomi??? even though mitsuomi is obviously the biggest threat to shin's deepest fear, that fear being someone taking away maya from shin??? come on.
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Post by MrProphet »

But wasn't that the whole point for her?

She loved Shin, so she wanted him to win against Mitsuomi. And if someone had stopped the fight, then the students would consider Mitsuomi the winner, since he has had the upper hand at that moment.

Certainly, she didn't seem to care much, if Shin won with or without the Dragon's Eye. After what she saw at the Finals, I think she knew that regular Shin is weaker than Mitsuomi.
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Post by kujoe »

I agree with MrProphet here.

Besides, how would Shin react to the fact that the fight was stopped on his behalf? He would certainly see it in that light, considering his fighting performance and his history with the Dragon's Eye. That would hurt him even more, and Mana was there to support him regardless of what may happen next.

It's kind of similar to the time when Shin refused to help Maya when she was having a hard time with one of the punks in school. The difference, is that Mana made a bigger and a more intimate sacrifice that ultimately cost her her life.

She was hardly a dumb broad. Foolish and fatalistic perhaps, but definitely not dumb.
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Post by kagezuchi »

MrProphet wrote:She loved Shin, so she wanted him to win against Mitsuomi. And if someone had stopped the fight, then the students would consider Mitsuomi the winner, since he has had the upper hand at that moment.

Certainly, she didn't seem to care much, if Shin won with or without the Dragon's Eye. After what she saw at the Finals, I think she knew that regular Shin is weaker than Mitsuomi.
i disagree about the reason as to why she did not stop the fight. she did not hold back because she thought shin could win. she held back because she had hoped that shin would actually accept his loss without resorting to ryuugan and murder.

and when i refer to his "loss", i'm referring to maya. really, that fight over the presidency, that meant nothing to shin, and kuzunoha knew that. for shin, the only thing that matters is maya, and shin had already lost maya to mitsuomi. shin obviously didn't care about the outcome of the presidency fight. he was already resigned to death. he knew that maya would be his undoing, sooner or later. he knew that he was going to die at the hands of the "true warrior", the dragon's eye having shown him his fate repeatedly.

anyways, kuzunoha's foolhardy hope was that maybe shin would hold back and not try to kill mitsuomi like how shin killed his parents (the common factor being that both are taking maya away from him). but that hope was just a fanciful wish, as anyone can see. shin had planned all along to kill mitsuomi with that elbow to the head, his thinking being that if shin couldn't have maya, then mitsuomi could not have her either. of course, after that failed, shin turned on ryuugan and beat the crap out of everyone in sight.

when i said that kuzunoha was a "dumb broad", i didn't mean that she was stupid in terms of intelligence, of course. "foolish" is a better description, as kujoe put it. kuzunoha was foolish to hope that shin would not resort to murder and ryuugan when it came to a fight over maya. especially when he had already lost that fight.
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Post by jimmy1200 »

how far has tenjou tenge been subbed because if my local anime store doesnt slap those fan subs on the shelf soon, i am going to be very pissed
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Post by FuguTabetai »

jimmy1200 wrote:how far has tenjou tenge been subbed because if my local anime store doesnt slap those fan subs on the shelf soon, i am going to be very pissed
Most legitimate commercial enterprises wouldn't sell fansubs because that is illegal, and really opens up the store to action by the copyright holder - of which there is clearly one in the US. It's even listed in the credits!
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Post by jimmy1200 »

dude, you need to chill out with all this legal copyright bullcrap. let me tell you a secret............
NO ONE CARES! jesus christ, the store has a section for fansubs and sell alot of them. what are you a freakin corporate lawyer or something? your such a neat little christian boy. freakin loosin up!. got damn!, i would hate to be your friend. you would probably tell on me everytime i didnt something baaaad. "mrs jimmy, jimmy stole some candy from seven eleven and that is illegal. i think you should have a talk with him"
mrs jimmy"..................what? um yeah okaay, can you please get out my house, its not that serious" :roll:

but thanks for answering my question
oh wait you didnt, all you did was cry about something i and a majority of america dont care about.
GOOD JOB BATMAN, ANOTHER EVIL THIEF IS OFF THE STREET :roll:
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Post by MrProphet »

Jimmy, Fugu is the owner here, so if he says "fansubs don't go", then we all shut the hell up and accept it.

Personally, I want to see TJTG dvd's in the states as soon as possible. Unfortunately, it's the selfish pricks like you who make it less and less possible. The more money Geneon looses on people who buy fansubs, the less insentive they have to actually produce the DVD's.

I mean, really... downloading fansubs, or sharing them with friends is one thing. Actually paying for them is a new low. While fansubbers may actually contribute to the copyright-holder by creating interest, fansub sellers are doing nothing more than steal from the rightful owner. And the more crap like that happens, the more chance that I'll be stuck with mediocre fansubs, instead of what I want: legitimate and quality DVD's.

Jesus... show some respect for the creators... they make their living on this.
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Post by MrProphet »

kagezuchi wrote:i disagree about the reason as to why she did not stop the fight. she did not hold back because she thought shin could win. she held back because she had hoped that shin would actually accept his loss without resorting to ryuugan and murder.
That's a very good point. I don't agree, but you make a good argument.

However, with that line of thinking on Mana's part is just stupid. Didn't she know that Shin was a proud man, and he wouldn't accept loosing to Mitsuomi.

Maya was not really a part of the fight, as in, they weren't fighting for Maya per se. Mitsuomi was fighting to get on top, to prove that he is stronger than Shin. And Shin could not allow it, since he was the symbolic leader. Shin was afraid of loosing all that: his status, his strenght. And loosing Maya was simply a consequence of that.

But back to Kuzunoha: If she did believe that Shin would accept surrender, as you would us to believe, then she is twice stupid. First of all, Maya was not commited to Mitsuomi all the way. She was still kinda 50/50 on both of the guys. So, why would Mana think that Shin would accept that Maya is with Mitsuomi now? It just seems to unreealistic...

Mana was jealous of Maya, that's true, and maybe she did want to make Shin let go of her. But I don't think that she would want that at the cost of Shin loosing his pride. I mean, she knew him better than any of the other guys. I just don't believe that she would ignore all that stuff.

That is why I don't think that Mana's intention was for him to loose.
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Post by jimmy1200 »

sorry i dont care
an infinite amount of intentions could possibly manifest every single second and the next one could make me blind or kill me(although i dont believe in death and im invulnerable to physical wounds), so dont blabber to me about geneon raping me of my money by buying a 30 dollar dvd from freakin fye. i dont care what he likes and he shouldnt care the same
you dont see me posting links to tenjou tenge downloads do you? no you dont but still no one answered my simple question. :roll: sighs... :roll:
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Post by moyism »

^ hey genius... if you looked... what... 3 post up you would have found the answer to your question. And just in case you missed it, TT has been fansubbed up to 18 while 23 eps are currently out.
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Post by FuguTabetai »

jimmy1200 wrote: ... snip ...
You won't see fansubs for sale at Suncoast Video or Best Buy anytime soon. I don't like how you bitch and moan but don't put out anything productive. I'm not opposed to fansubs, but I'm shocked to see some pissant whine about crap he's not entitled to when you could just download them yourself.

What I would like to see happen is Tenjo Tenge to be popular in the states so that other anime and manga series that have good characters and (arguably) interesting stories can be brought over here.

I'm happy to see something that used to be very underground - you just try to find manga in the mid 80s, back when I started - become popular now, exposing many people to other mediums for expression and showing some Japanese (pop) culture to American youth. I don't see anything wrong with trying to support that financially.

Downloading fansubs yourself is one thing - especially when a commercial release isn't available - but buying fansubs is another entirely. Most people that make fansubs are against it because you just have a retailer ripping off the fansubbers' work, and also the work of the original author. When a commercial release isn't available it is understandable, maybe, but you can't tell me that a version of Tenjo Tenge won't be released in the states given that the comic is in production, and a US company holds the copyright here!

Anyway, moan all you want, but I've got two last things to say:

1: I produce translations, so I'm clearly not just talking out of my ass.

And 2: I don't give a shit what you think. Not even enough to delete your posts. Say what you want, I'm no kid, and I'm not your mom.
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Post by FuguTabetai »

jimmy1200 wrote:how far has tenjou tenge been subbed because if my local anime store doesnt slap those fan subs on the shelf soon, i am going to be very pissed
Oh and I'll answer your question: up to 18. People keep posting links to the subbed eps on this thread! Which does not bother me one bit. But damn, read the thread you're ... reading?
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Post by Banorac »

kujoe wrote:I agree with MrProphet here.

It's kind of similar to the time when Shin refused to help Maya when she was having a hard time with one of the punks in school. The difference, is that Mana made a bigger and a more intimate sacrifice that ultimately cost her her life.
Yes AND that Shin didn't held back and punctured whats-his-name's liver with his thumb, so he was no match for Maya's "Bizou de Culotte" :D ( That's French for kiss of knickers, I just made that up, don't ask me why, it just sounds alright)
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Post by kagezuchi »

MrProphet wrote:However, with that line of thinking on Mana's part is just stupid. Didn't she know that Shin was a proud man, and he wouldn't accept loosing to Mitsuomi.

Maya was not really a part of the fight, as in, they weren't fighting for Maya per se. Mitsuomi was fighting to get on top, to prove that he is stronger than Shin. And Shin could not allow it, since he was the symbolic leader. Shin was afraid of loosing all that: his status, his strenght. And loosing Maya was simply a consequence of that.
true, maya was not part of the fight. but that's only because shin had already "lost" her to mitsuomi beforehand. of course, she still cares for shin. but she is clearly not shin's. it is not a 50/50 deal either. she clearly reciprocates mitsuomi's love/lust in a way which she would never reciprocate her brother's own love/lust. and when push comes to shove, she does want to pick mitsuomi over shin. example, at the hospital after both shin and mitsuomi recovered, she slapped away shin and chased after mitsuomi. and at the dojo when mitsuomi begs her to be weak for once, she really really wants to take his hand and jump into his heart and do all this mushy stuff. she refrains from doing so only because, if she does, shin will kill mitsu.

oh yeah, and shin's losing maya was not a consequence of him losing status or strength or whatever. come on, maya is not so shallow that she loves only power and status. she loves mitsuomi simply because he was a nice guy and a good guy, not because he is one of the baddest mofos on the planet.

seriously, from the start, shin's love for maya never had a chance. his love for maya is a hopeless one. she never did feel THAT way about him, you know, that lust/possessive/incestual way which shin feels about her.
MrProphet wrote:Mana was jealous of Maya, that's true, and maybe she did want to make Shin let go of her. But I don't think that she would want that at the cost of Shin loosing his pride. I mean, she knew him better than any of the other guys. I just don't believe that she would ignore all that stuff.

That is why I don't think that Mana's intention was for him to loose.
i don't think mana WANTED shin to lose the fight. and i don't think mana even cared too much about maya at that moment. really, the fight's result was not that important to shin or mana. what mana really wanted was for shin to maybe, just maybe, finally change himself and win that struggle with his dark side. if shin finally got over his maya obsession, that would be a big step forward, of course. but really, for the presidency fight, i think mana just wanted shin to become a good guy and do away with that crazed murderous psychopathic side of his which was synonymous with ryuugan. mana wanted so badly for shin to just become a regular good guy. she fell in love with him when he started acted like a regular dude, restoring motorcycles and hanging out with his katana buddies. and remember, she was mad pissed at maya because she thought maya was the one who had drawn shin back into the darkness.

seriously, during the shin/mitsu fight, mana never mentions a single thing about shin's pride or status or whatever. all she talks about is shin trying to overcome his weakness (maya-obsession/ryuugan/murderous psychotic tendencies). and while she and shin are dying in each other's embrace, she wistfully talks about how neither of them could overcome their own weaknesses. shin had succumbed to his weakness for maya and ryuugan. mana had succumbed to her own weakness, her tragically unfounded love and hope that Shin might somehow overcome himself.

really, the only person who was concerned about pride and power during that presidency fight was mitsuomi. and this irony was meant to be, because it showed that, in defeating a demon like shin, mitsuomi had turned into a demon himself. the fight clearly marked the beginning of mitsuomi's evolution into his dark villainous power-crazed side.
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Post by MrProphet »

kagezuchi wrote:oh yeah, and shin's losing maya was not a consequence of him losing status or strength or whatever. come on, maya is not so shallow that she loves only power and status. she loves mitsuomi simply because he was a nice guy and a good guy, not because he is one of the baddest mofos on the planet.
Not Maya. But both of the guys thought that, in my opinion. Being the "baddest mofo around" for them translated into being a better person, hence, being better suited fr Maya.

Since she was such a prize for both of them (or at least, that's how they seemed to view her at times), winning the fight was symbolically connected with winning Maya's heart.

Of course, that particular method of thinking made both of them a bunch of idiots, but hey, that's male ego for you. 8)
seriously, from the start, shin's love for maya never had a chance. his love for maya is a hopeless one. she never did feel THAT way about him, you know, that lust/possessive/incestual way which shin feels about her.
If that was the case, then why didn't Maya jump into Mitsuomi's pants earlier? Shin wasn't threatening him with death untill that very last moment.

She was clearly uncertain about her feelings for her brother. I wouldn't call it love, or even lust, but she wasn't too sure about what to make of her relationship with Shin.

Shin clearly wanted her to be at his side. Whether that was romantic on his side, or whether he was just obsessive-compulsive about his own sister is left out to debate.

As for Mitsuomi, I never really thought that he honestly loved Maya. Remember that scene with Mana, when she tells him that Maya and Shin are like lovers? I think those words sort of turned Mitsuomi to think of Maya as a sort of prize to win. From the start, he clearly wanted to be better than Shin. Taking Maya, taking the presidency, taking the position of the strongest fighter was all tied into his obsession of being better thatn Shin. Just remember that he never really cared about Maya before Mana's remark about lovers...

In my opinion, chasing Maya was a bit like sport for Mitsuomi: just like when he made her join Jyuukenbu by beating her at all those competitions. There COULD have been a spark of something else, just borne out all the fun they had together, but he went chasing after her with not very much romance on his mind.

So, to sum it up: Mitsuomi X Maya was never really romantic, it was more like, "Wow, we have some much fun, lets go out and be like girlfriend/boyfriend", while with Shin X Maya there was quite a bit more feeling. Neither Shin, nor Maya knew, what feeling was that exactly, but it was somewhat more romantic than what transpired between Maya and Mitsuomi.

As for the Mana stuff, I see your point and tend to argee. Except for, I think she wanted him to win. But that's really debatable.
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Post by kagezuchi »

MrProphet wrote:Not Maya. But both of the guys thought that, in my opinion. Being the "baddest mofo around" for them translated into being a better person, hence, being better suited fr Maya.

Since she was such a prize for both of them (or at least, that's how they seemed to view her at times), winning the fight was symbolically connected with winning Maya's heart.
they did not view maya as something shallow like a trophy or prize. certainly not shin, at least. when shin killed his parents, he did not kill them because they were threatening to take away his "prize" or "trophy". shin murdered them simply because he is insanely in love with maya. exactly the same reason as to why shin "killed" mitsuomi, killed katana members, and beat up mahjong guy and countless other people.

mitsuomi's feelings are a bit more ambiguous. but before the presidency fight, i think mitsu definitely did love her (i give my evidence later on).
MrProphet wrote: If that was the case, then why didn't Maya jump into Mitsuomi's pants earlier? Shin wasn't threatening him with death untill that very last moment.
maya's been holding back because shin already tried to kill mitsu long before that "sword to the head" scene. shin blasted mitsu in the heart on the 1st day of the election battle, which in fact did "kill" mitsu. and maya knew shin had done it solely because maya loved mitsuomi.

and even before then, maya didn't jump into mitsu's pants, because...

a) she and mitsu were still relatively new acquaintances back then. when she finally realized that she was in love with mitsu during that fortune telling scene, they hadn't even known each other for that long beforehand.

b) she also happens to be a violent arrogant bitch. she doesn't usually let people get close to her, mitsu even commented on how she was the one who was "alone". she's not some easy boychasing girl like aya, who chases and worships a boy just because he accidentally stuffed his face between her thighs (btw, aya fans, i'm j/k).

really, maya's romance with mitsuomi evolved about as normally as they get (as far as anime romances go). maya butts heads with mitsu. then she becomes friends with mitsu. then they hang out and go bowling and stuff. then she realizes that she is in love with mitsu.

of course, when shin realizes that maya is in love with mitsu (which happens to be the very next day), shin promptly responds by "killing" mitsu.

shin is the ultimate cock blocker, imo.
MrProphet wrote:She was clearly uncertain about her feelings for her brother. I wouldn't call it love, or even lust, but she wasn't too sure about what to make of her relationship with Shin.

Shin clearly wanted her to be at his side. Whether that was romantic on his side, or whether he was just obsessive-compulsive about his own sister is left out to debate.
ok, i didn't really mean to stress the sexual part of the relationship in my previous post. i was just emphasizing the fact that shin really really really loved maya in a disturbing way. so disturbing, in fact, that it was destined to be his downfall.
MrProphet wrote:As for Mitsuomi, I never really thought that he honestly loved Maya. Remember that scene with Mana, when she tells him that Maya and Shin are like lovers? I think those words sort of turned Mitsuomi to think of Maya as a sort of prize to win. From the start, he clearly wanted to be better than Shin. Taking Maya, taking the presidency, taking the position of the strongest fighter was all tied into his obsession of being better thatn Shin. Just remember that he never really cared about Maya before Mana's remark about lovers...
i disagree. mitsu already had a crush on maya before he met mana. remember, after his first clash with maya, mitsu said that he was already falling for her, even though the only thing maya had done so far to ingratiate herself with him was:

a) insult him and call him names
b) attempt to beat the crap out of him

also, mitsu really wanted to jump in and save maya while maya was getting trashed by mahjong guy. that alone makes it fairly obvious that mitsu already cared for maya, even before he met mana.
MrProphet wrote:In my opinion, chasing Maya was a bit like sport for Mitsuomi: just like when he made her join Jyuukenbu by beating her at all those competitions. There COULD have been a spark of something else, just borne out all the fun they had together, but he went chasing after her with not very much romance on his mind.

So, to sum it up: Mitsuomi X Maya was never really romantic, it was more like, "Wow, we have some much fun, lets go out and be like girlfriend/boyfriend", while with Shin X Maya there was quite a bit more feeling. Neither Shin, nor Maya knew, what feeling was that exactly, but it was somewhat more romantic than what transpired between Maya and Mitsuomi.
well, i'm not sure if mitsu still loves her in the present time. but i'm absolutely sure that he did once love her. that scene where mitsu literally cries and begs for maya to be weak sometimes, and where he tells her that she is not alone? that sure sounded to me like the words of a man in love. also, it's worth noting a quote during that scene where mitsu says, "and now, you (shin) are trying to steal the only one i love away from me!"

as for whether mitsuomi's relationship with maya was romantic or not... isn't it romantic to have fun and good times with each other? romance doesn't (and shouldn't) have to always be dreary melancholic dark stuff like the shin/maya relationship.

plus, back then, mitsu and maya only knew each other for maybe half a year or one year, tops. meanwhile, maya and shin had lived together for their entire lives. it's only natural that shin/maya's relationship had more traumatic and emotional moments. even though that scene with the crying and begging mitsuomi and shin ready to kill him from behind, that seemed awful emotional and traumatic to me.
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Post by MrProphet »

kagezuchi wrote:maya's been holding back because shin already tried to kill mitsu long before that "sword to the head" scene. shin blasted mitsu in the heart on the 1st day of the election battle, which in fact did "kill" mitsu. and maya knew shin had done it solely because maya loved mitsuomi.
Naw!

Absolutely not, in fact. Shin blasted Mitsuomi because he was in his berserk mode and he attacked anyone who approached him. He wasn't consciously hitting Mitsuomi because of any reason, because I he wasn't reasonable at that time at all.

Maya was angsty about that because she had called out to Mitsuomi and thus alerted Shin to the fact that someone was behind him. Shin didn't really care, who was it.
as for whether mitsuomi's relationship with maya was romantic or not... isn't it romantic to have fun and good times with each other? romance doesn't (and shouldn't) have to always be dreary melancholic dark stuff like the shin/maya relationship.
Heh, with that reasoning, Mitsuomi also loved Mana, since they were such, if you pardon me, fuckbuddies. They just had fun sex. Does that translate into romance? Does hanging out with Maya translate into romance for Mitsuomi? It may lead to it, but on its own, hanging out and having fun does not signify romance.

I mean, Shin and Mitsuomi did hang out as well. And I wouldn't call TJTG yaoi. 8)
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Post by Korasoff-sama »

jimmy1200 wrote:(although i dont believe in death and im invulnerable to physical wounds)
I can't believe nobody has yet taken up an M-16 and shot you, and mostly your credibility, to shreds. If you don't know anything about how the real world of business works then quit whining.
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Post by kagezuchi »

MrProphet wrote:Naw!

Absolutely not, in fact. Shin blasted Mitsuomi because he was in his berserk mode and he attacked anyone who approached him. He wasn't consciously hitting Mitsuomi because of any reason, because I he wasn't reasonable at that time at all.

Maya was angsty about that because she had called out to Mitsuomi and thus alerted Shin to the fact that someone was behind him. Shin didn't really care, who was it.
no, maya was not being angsty. she was stating the truth. shin recognized mitsuomi, but when maya showed concern for mitsu, shin went ahead and attacked mitsu anyways. mitsuomi tried to downplay it afterwards by saying it was an accident, but he only did that because he didn't want to worry maya. mitsu even hid from her the fact that he was already "dead" due to shin's attack, solely because he didn't want maya to be sad.

anyway, it still doesn't change the fact that shin will kill anyone who takes maya away from him. he did kill his parents, u know. and there's even more proof from shin's own mouth. after shin beats up fu chien again, shin warns maya that if she tries to run away from shin and his manic obsessiveness, he will kill everyone connected to her. basically, if she leaves shin for anyone else (mitsuomi), he will kill everyone. in essence, the lunatic is blackmailing her to stay with him.
MrProphet wrote:Heh, with that reasoning, Mitsuomi also loved Mana, since they were such, if you pardon me, fuckbuddies. They just had fun sex. Does that translate into romance? Does hanging out with Maya translate into romance for Mitsuomi? It may lead to it, but on its own, hanging out and having fun does not signify romance.

I mean, Shin and Mitsuomi did hang out as well. And I wouldn't call TJTG yaoi. 8)
mitsuomi said it, plain and simple, shin was trying to take away the only one he loved (maya). mitsuomi clearly loved her. and she obviously loves mitsuomi. which means they had a romantic relationship. is it really that diffficult to comprehend?
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Post by jimmy1200 »

actually i saw that 18 had been fansubbed but i didnt look to see how recent that was and i didnt know if anymore had been fansubbed since then, so dont get all irrate. excuse me for not reading the date on the reply, my bad.
I can't believe nobody has yet taken up an M-16 and shot you, and mostly your credibility, to shreds. If you don't know anything about how the real world of business works then quit whining
the real world of buisness? what are you even talking about? im talking about fansubs right now and im not interested in how buisness works and by the way due to technical difficulties, i cant download tenjou tenge, so i go across the street and buy it. its not that painful, there only 5 dollars a tape and you get like 6 episodes per tape.


You won't see fansubs for sale at Suncoast Video or Best Buy anytime soon. I don't like how you bitch and moan but don't put out anything productive. I'm not opposed to fansubs, but I'm shocked to see some pissant whine about crap he's not entitled to when you could just download them yourself
put out anything productive? like what? would you like me to draw a smile face and post it in a thread. i mean what is there productive to really do or say about tenjou tenge? its an anime/manga and its good, plain and simple, read it, watch it and then get rid of it.
I'm happy to see something that used to be very underground - you just try to find manga in the mid 80s, back when I started - become popular now, exposing many people to other mediums for expression and showing some Japanese (pop) culture to American youth. I don't see anything wrong with trying to support that financially.
i dont care about japanese pop culture, i live in america. okay okay the bitching stops but thanks! :D
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Post by moyism »

102 screencaps of eps 21-23.

episode 21:
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episode 22:
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episode 23:
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Post by kujoe »

Holy crap! Nice screencaps moyism--especially the ones with Asshat and some of Shin's. Thanks. You just convinced me to start downloading the raws all over again.
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Post by MrProphet »

Yup,... it's aaaaaall good. 8)

PS Except for that stupid goofy face of Fu.. 8( But the rest is awesome! 8)
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Post by moyism »

yea. I was pretty amazed the quality of animation actually went up as I watched 21-23. Now only if they would keep it that way for the last 3 eps :?
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Post by kujoe »

Well, I'm not so sure about the quality of the animation itself (I haven't seen it yet actually...had to redownload ep21. :x ) but the artwork on those shots look great. They don't have that "rushed to meet the deadline" look that can be seen in some of the previous episodes.
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Post by Korasoff-sama »

The artwork for episode 21 was meh. Episode 22 was slightly better, and 23 much, much crisper and cleaner. Just compare the fight between Shin and Fu to the fight between Shin and Mitsuomi, you'll see what I mean.
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Post by MrProphet »

Episode 19 is out with subtitles.

http://www.anime-station.org/torrents/T ... vi.torrent

They have translated Kuzuo as Asshat. I guess they've read the manga too. 8)
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Post by Spawn »

Image

this picture has a better style in the manga ...... :x

Image

What this face ???? :shock:

Image


:shock: WHAT THIS FACE ???? :shock:


well ...... Fu anime version is really horrible ...... :?
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Post by moyism »

^ yea well, I never liked Fu until he was the zombie robot. So my screencaps were him in comedical poses and whatnot. hehehe

here's the full shot of Izumi in ep21 w/ the face/eye pan thingie....
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