Thats what I feared about TenTen anime...

king83 · Post by **king83** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 5:59 pm

Avex Mode, the same folks who brought us the One Piece anime, are gearing up to release an animated version of Tenjo Tenge. As you may recall, Tenjo Tenge is a manga made available in English through the kindly efforts of mangatranslation.com. It entails the struggle between Nagi Souichiro and the Jyukenbo fighting club versus the insidious Enforcement Group. The manga is a high-quality school-ruffian/martial arts drama with some adult themes interspersed. Fugu Tabetai, the fan scanslator of the manga, has done a great job of bringing this title to us, even going so far as to personally host Bittorrents for each of the first ten volumes. Fansubbed versions of the anime may not be available through reputable organizations, as Geneon Animation already has distribution rights to it before it has even aired in Japan.

from the http://www.sonic.net/jdf/

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:38 pm

Man things are getting out of hand in my mind as far as getting rights is concerned

. I guess i would mind it so much if translator over here working for comapnies like ADV and Pioneer didn't butcher the translation. ADV is infamous for using Slang used here when it has nothing to do with the anime.

Mephisto03 · Post by **Mephisto03** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:40 pm

It will defently be subbed by "reputable" fansub groups. you can gurantee that.

Kagutsuchi · Post by **Kagutsuchi** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 6:43 pm

A lot of people are saying it's licensed but why doesn't Geneon's official site say anything at all? Nothing in press releases section remotely mentions any new anime. And I think most fansubbers pretty much stick to "it's not licensed until 100% officially announced."

I remember a couple of years ago there was the whole big controversy on whether or not Noir was licensed or not. Groups dropped it for a while. I think the final verdict sometime later was that it wasn't despite strong arguments/hints/evidence. I'm not a fansubber and I don't know anything about laws so I can't say anything about the details of it.

If it is licensed? Personally I'm not bothered *that* much... it'll be licensed sooner or later anyway. But I really want to see at least a few eps fansubbed to decide if it is good and worth buying when it's released in USA... a year or 2 from now

. Yes yes, I'm broke and have to carefully spend my money when it comes to hobbies. Also impatient and must decide NOW.

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 7:20 pm

It really is licenced. Honest. See http://animenation.net/news/index.php?id=6126 for an American commercial outlet talking about it. Also see the official site for the anime at http://www.avexmode.jp/animation/tenten/ and note that Geneon USA is listed right at the bottom (on the first copyright tag line) of each page. If Geneon USA isn't actually involved, then somebody should notivy Avex Mode about this

Copyright and license holders aren't required to notify the public of their property rights. It has simply been a convention that fansubbers are expected to cease distribution once a commercial product is available (and as a courtesy, that distribution cease once it is clear that there will be a commercial release). In this case, it is reasonably obvious.

DarkFlareKnight · Post by **DarkFlareKnight** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 10:30 pm

That link just says that TT was supported by them and there is of yet no offical licensing yet.

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:06 pm

DarkFlareKnight wrote:That link just says that TT was supported by them and there is of yet no offical licensing yet.

I suppose this means that the folks at Geneon, pro bono publico, donated time, money, manpower and/or other resources to a project for which they have no stake? Even the least cynical part of me doubts this very much.

I'm sure that some fansubbers will use the lack of a "we licensed this title" press release as a rationalization for subbing it. I'll download it, as I'm not terribly concerned about the intellectual property rights of somebody who isn't trying to sell me the product yet. But that doesn't make it legal.

One of these days a fansubber is going to get spanked rather badly, and it won't be pretty.

To quote a Babblefishing of the Avex Mode site, the blurb at the bottom says "(C) Large end maintaining human Shueisha Publishing Co., Ltd./avexGENEON USA Copyright 2004 avex mode. All rights reserved." God I love Babblefish... "Large end maintaining human..."

Kagutsuchi · Post by **Kagutsuchi** » Thu Apr 01, 2004 11:40 pm

Well, if you really want to get technical... 100% of any and all fansubs are ILLEGAL. Japanese companies hold copyrights, which are international according to some World Trade Agreement (I'm no expert but I'm sure I read this somewhere)

Whether those companies are going to press charges and enforce those copyrights is another issue. And about continuing to fansub after it's been "re-licensed" for USA, that's not something that can be stopped. In the event they do get caught, US companies are somewhat easy-going about it. They will nicely ask the groups to stop subbing it before they commence "spanking" as you say.

And why are they nice? Businessmen aren't stupid. They know what fansubbing does for them: it builds fanbase and gives the product some public exposure. It's because of this, I really think we should be able to expect TenTen to at least get a few episodes fansubbed before they bring the hammer down. I definitely don't plan to have the whole series fansubbed or even half of it. Having none of it would be unreasonable of them though. I predict and hope they wait a while before "officially announcing" their license.

9TF · Post by **9TF** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 12:24 am

king83 wrote:Avex Mode, the same folks who brought us the One Piece anime, are gearing up to release an animated version of Tenjo Tenge.

I think Madhouse Studios are releaseing it....

AND STOP WHINING BOUT THE LICENSE.....IT DOESN'T mean anything

GunGrave was licensed by the SAME GENEON (AKA PIOONER) and we allready have 22 ILLEGAL FANSUBED EPS......

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:12 am

Ok a little off the subject but is Gungrave an anime now? Was it always an anime and made into a game or vice versa? If so, is it by Yasuhiro Nightow (TRIGUN) and where can I find it?

9TF · Post by **9TF** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:26 am

it was a game then they made it into an anime

more info bout the anime P.S. there r links 4 emule thats how u can get it ---> http://anidb.ath.cx/perl-bin/animedb.pl ... h=gungrave

moyism · Post by **moyism** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:09 am

solidis1 wrote:Ok a little off the subject but is Gungrave an anime now? Was it always an anime and made into a game or vice versa? If so, is it by Yasuhiro Nightow (TRIGUN) and where can I find it?

GunGrave was originally an game on the PS2 which turned into an anime (which I've throughly enjoyed). Not sure who created it off bat, but you can watch the anime knowing nothing and enjoy it nonetheless.

koko775 · Post by **koko775** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 2:17 am

According to world law, yes, fansubs are illegal. However, because the US does not enforce international copyrights, fansubs are *not* illegal. Thus it is licensed and the copyright is assigned within the US to an American company, and the anime can be protected under copyright and thus sold.

Screw it, i'll watch the anime raw

*prays that ani-kraze picks the series up*

Though translated scripts would be handy...*wink* *wink*

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 10:48 am

koko775 wrote:According to world law, yes, fansubs are illegal. However, because the US does not enforce international copyrights, fansubs are *not* illegal. Thus it is licensed and the copyright is assigned within the US to an American company, and the anime can be protected under copyright and thus sold.

I don't know what you are talking about here; even if something is only copyrighted in Japan, as a signee of the Berne
Convention, their copyright is honored in the US. Moreover, a translation of a work is considered a derivative work, and rights to a translation into any language are still owned by the original copyright holder. Do not fool yourself - nothing about this is legal, I'm positive that the anime companies do not think that fansubbing increases the nebulous "fan base" for a series that is available in the states. They think that it eats into sales. For a series that isn't released in the states, things might be different, but if something is slated to come out at a later date, as Tenjo Tenge likely is, they probably see fan translations as eroding potential sales.

Regardless, fansubbing is likely ignored because right now it reaches few people. But don't try to justify it - if you are guilty of copyright infringement, you should be aware of it. I certainly am - I worry about it a lot.

koko775 wrote: Screw it, i'll watch the anime raw
*prays that ani-kraze picks the series up*

Though translated scripts would be handy...*wink* *wink*

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:21 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:Regardless, fansubbing is likely ignored because right now it reaches few people. But don't try to justify it - if you are guilty of copyright infringement, you should be aware of it. I certainly am - I worry about it a lot.

Well you have one thing going for you: you don't have a bunch of profits off your translation for the copyright holder to go after. Siccing a bunch of lawyers at you would be a money-hole, especially if you were to cease distribution once a commercial translation were made available.

zip · Post by **zip** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:29 pm

fugu, will you continue to scanlate the manga if its licensed?

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 1:46 pm

Tenjo Tenge Manga Liscensed

! Did i just feel my heart stop. No seroiusly thought, isn't it wierd that they got the anime but not the manga first (like Naurto)??? Maybe it cuz of all the boderline hen/ecchi stuff. It would probably have to be sold with a warning, or be placed on the top shelf with all the interesting manga. Atleast here in Houston where anime places are scarce, u wouldn't be able to find it. They won't even sell UN_domesticated (imported) stuff at Planet Anime(our last anime shop in htown

). U guys r soo lucky in the NY.

Flashblade · Post by **Flashblade** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 4:38 pm

A fellow Houstonian

Its a shame Planet Anime IS our last anime store in Houston. Especially considering how big it is. We aren't New york but still...Its Houston.

The only thing Planet Anime is good for now is rentals and artbooks. I remember a time when they used to have EVERYTHING. Those were the good days.

I'm guilty of purchasing fan subs. But I hate it when ADV wants 30 dollars for 2 episodes in a 26 episode series.

Kagutsuchi · Post by **Kagutsuchi** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:11 pm

But I hate it when ADV wants 30 dollars for 2 episodes in a 26 episode series.

Yes, I've had strong feelings against ADV since buying Evangelion VHS at that crazy pricing many years ago.

I'm from north Texas, right next to Dallas. I don't know of any big anime stores around here where I can get import stuff... so I feel your pain >_<. Project A-Kon rolls around every year, and there's plenty of stuff there but not for prices I'm willing to go for.

NY and especially Cali are rolling the stuff in like crazy. Sucks for us in the midwest.

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 5:32 pm

I remember before in 00', before anime became a huge craze (bigger than it is now) when u could by import stuff over there. Something must have happened or maybe the stuff wasn't selling. We use to have 2 Animagics and the Planet Anime here in Houston. Then Best Buy and FYE started carring Anime DVD's and selling them a cheaper prices. Soon enough the could compete and then :PooF:

they were gone. Now, sorry to say it, Planet Anime looks to be on it's last leg. I hope they never shut down but things don't look so good. It suck cuz he have to buy everything online

. Not to mention that I am not fond of ADV. They have the "reverese Midas Touch" Every golden anime they get turn into crap. You Know there's a problem when your sub dialog is saying is saying yes and your dub is saying "no" @ the same time.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:07 pm

burrowowl wrote:
FuguTabetai wrote:Regardless, fansubbing is likely ignored because right now it reaches few people. But don't try to justify it - if you are guilty of copyright infringement, you should be aware of it. I certainly am - I worry about it a lot.
Well you have one thing going for you: you don't have a bunch of profits off your translation for the copyright holder to go after. Siccing a bunch of lawyers at you would be a money-hole, especially if you were to cease distribution once a commercial translation were made available.

Well, it makes it a civil instead of criminal offense.

I have nowhere near the amount of money to spend on lawyers that even a 2-bit company would have.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:07 pm

zip wrote:fugu, will you continue to scanlate the manga if its licensed?

No.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Fri Apr 02, 2004 7:10 pm

pv82 wrote:I remember before in 00', before anime became a huge craze (bigger than it is now) when u could by import stuff over there. Something must have happened or maybe the stuff wasn't selling. We use to have 2 Animagics and the Planet Anime here in Houston. Then Best Buy and FYE started carring Anime DVD's and selling them a cheaper prices. Soon enough the could compete and then :PooF: they were gone. Now, sorry to say it, Planet Anime looks to be on it's last leg. I hope they never shut down but things don't look so good. It suck cuz he have to buy everything online . Not to mention that I am not fond of ADV. They have the "reverese Midas Touch" Every golden anime they get turn into crap. You Know there's a problem when your sub dialog is saying is saying yes and your dub is saying "no" @ the same time.

Back when I first started to watch anime ('86 or so?) you could get anime from ... well, maybe you could find a guy that would mail you a tape if you wrote him a letter.

fugu

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Mon Apr 05, 2004 8:31 am

Heh, you guys are quite lucky nevertheless. Here in the Philippines, you'll definitely find a lot of anime for a cheap price--that is, if you prefer homemade bootlegs or Hong Kong dvds. I guess the latter is ok if you're fluent in Cantonese, but the English subs in it are awful. They even change the names of the characters for crying out loud!

I get my anime (original R1 dvds) from my local comic store, where I'm known as one of their high-paying regulars. That's to be expected since they overcharge most of the time. Think along the lines of having to pay extra 3/10* of the original price. And have I mentioned the horrendous traffic while going there by car?

I guess I can find another shop, but the extra benefits that come naturally from being well-known make up for the relatively high prices. There was even a time when they actually put aside a dvd copy of a series I was currently following under my name, knowing that I would most likely buy it sooner or later. I was actually quite surprised at that time--considering that I didn't know it was already out in the first place. Plus, I had not even made a down payment. Importing on the other hand, is quite easy since Japan is just up north--as long as you have the right contacts and the cash.

Oh well, money talks as they say.

*edited

Fobik-X · Post by **Fobik-X** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 4:02 am

they will hit the bootlegers, who are acculy making money off anime/manga, before they will a bunch of high school and college students(for the most part) who are subing for free...

MangaTranslation.com

Thats what I feared about TenTen anime...

Thats what I feared about TenTen anime...

Re: Thats what I feared about TenTen anime...