Everything that isn't good in tenjo tenge

locke · Post by **locke** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:33 am

I'll first say two preliminary things:
- As it's my first post, i'd like to thank a lot fugu for his great work.
- As english isn't my first langage, my message will certainly contain lots of faults...

Then, the main subject! I quite like tenjo tenge, but i must say there are things that ain't no good! I'm going to enumerate what i dislike, and it's up to you to debate of these!

- Girls have toooooooo big boobs! I prefer when it's more, i'd say, cute...

- Why,

zip · Post by **zip** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 7:18 am

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:40 am

What if Souichirou doesn't alway win?

locke · Post by **locke** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:53 am

As it has begun, we can say he's just like rocky... Even if he sometimes loses, he'll be the great end-of-game winner....

Don't you feel this too?

[but, if you were right, i'd be happy]

zombi3d · Post by **zombi3d** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 9:26 am

but 99% of all stories end with the hero, winning
it would be a bummer if he lose.
but with nagi.. im willing to turn my head the other way
lol
yeah there are far more interesting characters in the manga than nagi, but if u read the last few chapters, you'd see how OH great is developing his character. the way he speaks about his father, about how children should be treated, and how parents should be treated, its all part of his character

now i think that out great wants the read to see how nagi grows.
and thats a really great thing to do!

zip · Post by **zip** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 11:57 am

i just hope oh! great doesnt make it that nagi and aya are siblings.

locke · Post by **locke** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:53 pm

What for a problem would his be?

As i understand the story, Nagi isn't really interested in someone else than himself, i.e. no women and especially not Aya....

Oh Great will maybe find a dog or a donkey for him, that would just fit!

[I know i'm not objective, i just deeply dislike this guy

]

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 12:59 pm

locke wrote:What for a problem would his be?

As i understand the story, Nagi isn't really interested in someone else than himself, i.e. no women and especially not Aya....

Oh Great will maybe find a dog or a donkey for him, that would just fit!

[I know i'm not objective, i just deeply dislike this guy ]

A donkey

. Maybe that should be one the poll for best couples

. Man, its seems like Tenjo Tenge is one of the few mangas were the some of readers actually hate the hero more than antagonist.

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 3:52 pm

locke wrote:What for a problem would his be?

As i understand the story, Nagi isn't really interested in someone else than himself, i.e. no women and especially not Aya....

Oh Great will maybe find a dog or a donkey for him, that would just fit!

[I know i'm not objective, i just deeply dislike this guy ]

Yes, you're not being objective. It's not really good if you're biases overule what's in the story. I mean, I also have my problems regarding Nagi, but for me, it has always been a matter of whether the story has an objective correlative or not.

In this respect, allow me to offer a hint that merely scratches the surface:

Vol.2, page 136.

It's your call from here on.

In my opinion, there seems to be a problem with focus somewhere, or the focus lacks balance (or perhaps it's the other way around). It's like the author only started working on his hero around vol. 10, which is already too late if you ask me. I also hate the idea that his Dragon's Gate popped out of nowhere, but I wouldn't easily peg it as a 'god-like' power when Nagi could possibly lose a limb or two. Oh! Great only presented small glimpses of Nagi's heritage once or twice in the first few chapters, so it definitely looks like it just came out of nowhere.

Interestingly, my problem with TT is not only with Nagi--but also with Maya. I really can't understand what she's trying to accomplish in the present, and the past arc just makes her more convoluted to me. I understand that her motivations will be explored later on, but I can't grab a feel of them right now. Ironically, this is also one of the reasons why I still find her interesting.

Banorac · Post by **Banorac** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 5:04 pm

locke wrote: As i understand the story, Nagi isn't really interested in someone else than himself, i.e. no women and especially not Aya....

Now, that's where you're wrong, Nagi has the hugest crush on Maya, because she's the first girl he ever fell in love with with the whole 'love at first sight thingie'

locke · Post by **locke** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 6:05 pm

kujoe wrote: Yes, you're not being objective. It's not really good if you're biases overule what's in the story. I mean, I also have my problems regarding Nagi, but for me, it has always been a matter of whether the story has an objective correlative or not.

In this respect, allow me to offer a hint that merely scratches the surface:

Vol.2, page 136.

It's your call from here on.

In my opinion, there seems to be a problem with focus somewhere, or the focus lacks balance (or perhaps it's the other way around). It's like the author only started working on his hero around vol. 10, which is already too late if you ask me. I also hate the idea that his Dragon's Gate popped out of nowhere, but I wouldn't easily peg it as a 'god-like' power when Nagi could possibly lose a limb or two. Oh! Great only presented small glimpses of Nagi's heritage once or twice in the first few chapters, so it definitely looks like it just came out of nowhere.

Interestingly, my problem with TT is not only with Nagi--but also with Maya. I really can't understand what she's trying to accomplish in the present, and the past arc just makes her more convoluted to me. I understand that her motivations will be explored later on, but I can't grab a feel of them right now. Ironically, this is also one of the reasons why I still find her interesting.

I really like to change the rules and the power of my imagination is too strong... I've the "Dragon's Dream", when some have its eye...

But i do agree with you. About soichirou, that's exactly what i meant when i said 'no background': It's coming maybe 6 volumes too late. Oh Great wants us to like his hero, and therefore begins to develop his story, but it sounds fake. I don't like when the author wants to force the readers into his point of view, with real pieces of god-likeness in it. He just can reconstruct a nice character with nagi, i think... You know, bob seems much better to me, because with the same start point, he evolves gradually to something else, by his work, his will, but never by an author magic wand... And he's a nice guy!
Yes, that's definitely the way Oh Great makes Nagi evolve that disturbs me...

Maya's aims ain't evident, and that's true it's hard for the understanding of her actions... But the character is interesting, we just miss why she acts like this, why she doesn't want reiki to be destroyed, this kind of things...

On the contrary, Aya: we don't really know why she's here, how she came there, or even what she does in the manga, apart from showing her panties, of course... i hope we'll learn more or you'll explain me what her role is.... her "love at first sight thing" doesn't seem much credible either...

Thinking of it, i'd like to know more about masataka too... The point is, as i said, there's a too big amount of characters to develop... And i don't think the ones on which the story focuses (especially nagi & aya) are the most interesting....

Fulsion · Post by **Fulsion** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:28 pm

Everything that isn't good in TJTG =

1) It takes so long for a new volume to come out
2) There is a constant fear that Oh!Great wrap things up without giving us a real ending or without delving into the other main characters (eg I'm sure all the masataka fans out there want some kind of history and story with him in it)

Everything else is fine

Oh yea, Oh!Great's girls are getting very similar in looks, not that it's a bad thing, but for eg there's a girl in Air Gear who looks almost exactly the same as Aya in volume 9/10, only with Blonde hair ~_~ It's bad because if I read Air gear I'll never remember her name, i'll just be thinking "Aya" every time she appears =/

jakez0r · Post by **jakez0r** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 8:48 pm

masataka should be the main character

he's way cooler

Crimson · Post by **Crimson** » Tue Apr 13, 2004 10:01 pm

The bad things in this manga is

Lack of character development, the manga is only focusing on two characters while the others do like nothing.. .-_-

The main character Nagi is an idiot, he's probably the only main character i really ever hated in a manga. Its like he just doesn't fit to be the main character, Masataka and Maya would be perfect instead of Nagi and Aya.

Aya is a total idiot. she is way to obsessed with Nagi.

Everything goes pretty slow, before something is resolved, something else starts up. Nothing is concluded.

Its hard to tell where the manga is going at times, too many things are introduced. That whole thing with the people that does illusions is just too weird. ANd whats up with that Alien guy o.O???

Well, to tell the truth, Right now i'm really just reading the manga for the fanservice, i've lost alot of interest in the story.

By the way, how long does it take for a volume to be released in Japan?

Sacrin · Post by **Sacrin** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:05 am

I'll try to hit all the points I can...(Sorry for length)

Oh! Great has a very different way of telling stories that I think a lot of people aren't use to.

What I think he is doing with Nagi (like was sayed before) is building his story and motivation as time goes on. He is a good char, I just think a lot of people don't see that. He has a drive that main chars thend to have (to me he's kind of like Naruto). And there isn't anything fake about him. He has a brain (just one motivation, but that is starting to change, or we are starting to see more), a background (we just don't know it yet, what's new), and a "behavior" (it seems a lot of people miss or don't like it). And he still isn't that powerful right now even with the gate. I bet he still couldn't beat Mitsuomi, maybe not even Masataka (and of cource not Bunshichi ^_^ ).

I think the main problem is that there isn't enough room for all the story Oh! Great is laying out, but that is one of the things I love most about TT (and Oh! Great). If only he could come out with them faster...

I'm thinking at first they didn't expect it to last this long. Never the less, he crams a lot of story and explination and back story in the mangas I've seen from him.

I personaly like Masataka and think he would be great as a main char, but mainly because he is a lot like me. I can't wait till they explain more of his story (and others), but I know they will.

Aya has her reasons for being obested. She can see the future for gods sakes! And she "came here" because she's a freshman and her sister provided her with a place to live. I bet there is more to it, but that is the basic reason why. She has a big role, even so far. She's done a lot.

I do want to see more of Bob and a few others, but once agin, lack of space in the manga...

The gates did come kind of quick, but not out of nowhere. They are natural abilities and they are well trained fighters. Nagi's mom has the Dragon's Eye and all we can guess is that his dad was a bad ass. He's also from a family that hunts deamons...That demands bad ass-ness. ^_^

As for their boobs being to big. A lot of shit is out of proportion, but it's a manga, that is mostly style (the rest is because it looks nice

). I kind of agree though, if they where real they would almost be too big. They would just look realy odd period if they where real though. ^_^

I don't know why every one keeps complaining about not being at the school and with simple fights. I can kind of see where they are coming from, but I like that he changes it up insted of the generic "high school fighter". If you want that there are a hell of a lot of thoughs.

I just want to add that I think there is more than one main char. Just because Oh! Great kind of jokes at them being the main chars, there are a lot of chars with a lot of focus and story. But I guess to me it's kind of a matter of opinion.

Well, that's all of my ranting for now...

kagezuchi · Post by **kagezuchi** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:32 am

Am I the only one who finds this new supervillain (the guy who fires arrows/darts) to be kinda stupid? He fires DARTS with rubber bands, for crying out loud. What's the next villain gonna do? Shoot spitwads from a plastic straw?

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:53 am

I like your post Sacrin.

Thanks for pointing out some details that I have missed. You're right--certain things were already building up even during the earlier chapters, such as the part about "exorcists" and "demons" and about Nagi's blood. I really have no pure hatred with Nagi--it's the execution of his character that seems to lack a bit. Some people also seem to forget that the "demon" of the past arc is Shin, and secondly Mitsuomi. Now we have Nagi and Aya, who are not exactly "demons" but who nevertheless remind us of the past in their own way. Hmmm. There's an obscure parallelism that's being made there.

In this respect the main cast becomes interrelated with each other--of having a shared past and a shared future. You can't simply take them as separate individuals--bad ass or otherwise--who're mainly there to beat up the next guy that comes along. With that said, I suggest others to reread the first chapters again and try to read it differently. From my experience, it certainly made those things which I initially missed clearer.

Also with regard to what you've said, I think some things in the anime will be clearer, since it's inevitable that some editing on the plot will take place.

hitokiri007 · Post by **hitokiri007** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 2:20 am

just be glad and hope it doesn't turn out like ikkitousen, the anime. (never read the manga)

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 9:38 am

I really enjoy Tenjo Tenge because it has a complicated story, and almost all of the characters are well developed and have motivations. I particularly love the lack of contrived evil character; the "bad guys" have had well explained motivations as well. Even Tsumuji Matazaa (F) is interesting - he's fighting against his (perceived to be) oppressive father (who only came into his life later on) and disasterous childhood.

Nagi is not my favorite character, but I feel there are enough well developed characters out there that you don't have to hang your hat on him. Take volume 5 for instance - particularly page 220. Naig and Bob complain in the (joke) manga that they didn't even show up, and they are the main characters!

I also don't understand why so many people dislike the focus away from the High School fighting arena - TJTG seems a lot better to me than your standard high school brawler. Of which there are many.

fugu

locke · Post by **locke** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 10:31 am

FuguTabetai wrote:any people dislike the focus away from the High School fighting arena - TJTG seems a lot better to me than your standard high school brawler. Of which there are many.
fugu

You know, that's not so the fact that the story gets off school, it's more the same matter that was discussed about Nagi: It seems to come a bit late, as if the author had suddenly thought "Oh, I sell lots of manga, i mustn't finish it too early, i'm gonna add something to make 25 more volumes... humm ... hummm... And if there was an old affiliate to the natsume family who would be attacked by some freak, humm, yes, and if they were the same that want to fight maya's gang, and, hum, i'd add a new end-of-level boss with our archer character (which really comes from nowhere, appeared in volume 9)..."

Always the magic wand...

sormlord · Post by **sormlord** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 12:36 pm

locke wrote:
FuguTabetai wrote:any people dislike the focus away from the High School fighting arena - TJTG seems a lot better to me than your standard high school brawler. Of which there are many.
fugu
You know, that's not so the fact that the story gets off school, it's more the same matter that was discussed about Nagi: It seems to come a bit late, as if the author had suddenly thought "Oh, I sell lots of manga, i mustn't finish it too early, i'm gonna add something to make 25 more volumes... humm ... hummm... And if there was an old affiliate to the natsume family who would be attacked by some freak, humm, yes, and if they were the same that want to fight maya's gang, and, hum, i'd add a new end-of-level boss with our archer character (which really comes from nowhere, appeared in volume 9)..."

Always the magic wand...

actually its more like the characters developed.
it's just that the plot seems to distract and take the focus away
from them. it's like oh great got cought up in the plot and shifted the focus
more toward setteing up a long series {wich he's known for} from volume one.so that the characters took a back seat to laying the ground work of the story

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:14 pm

locke wrote:You know, that's not so the fact that the story gets off school, it's more the same matter that was discussed about Nagi: It seems to come a bit late, as if the author had suddenly thought "Oh, I sell lots of manga, i mustn't finish it too early, i'm gonna add something to make 25 more volumes... humm ... hummm... And if there was an old affiliate to the natsume family who would be attacked by some freak, humm, yes, and if they were the same that want to fight maya's gang, and, hum, i'd add a new end-of-level boss with our archer character (which really comes from nowhere, appeared in volume 9)..."

Always the magic wand...

I disagree with your calling it an act of a "magic wand." Are you saying that the story is being arbitrary? When I expressed Nagi's power popped out of nowhere, I didn't mean it appeared out of thin air. It has been hinted early on--just not in such a way that could easily be interpreted at first glance. It may be the act of the author to purposely prolong the series, but it has never been unreasonable. There's a gradual progression nevertheless.

FuguTabetai wrote:Nagi is not my favorite character, but I feel there are enough well developed characters out there that you don't have to hang your hat on him. Take volume 5 for instance - particularly page 220. Naig and Bob complain in the (joke) manga that they didn't even show up, and they are the main characters!

They're just venting their frustration. I understand, since I'm probably one of them--but still, I like Nagi for what he simply is, probably even more so than Masataka. To be honest, I'm already tired of all of these "Nagi's an idiot, Masataka is cooler. etc." rantings. That's definitely one's opinion, but from these last few days, this also seems to be the only criterion for judging the entire story of the manga. And since it seems no one is out to defend the hero, then I guess I will.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:21 pm

I think a few more people have been popping up around here that have just seen the anime, maybe read the first few volumes, and are making judgement calls based on that.

Certainly have been lots more peers in the BitTorrent downloads anyway.

AdrianWerner · Post by **AdrianWerner** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 1:58 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:I think a few more people have been popping up around here that have just seen the anime, maybe read the first few volumes, and are making judgement calls based on that.

Certainly have been lots more peers in the BitTorrent downloads anyway.

I`m such newcomer myself

I though that Tenjou Tenge anime was cool so I decided to check manga and it turned out to be even better .
Anyway...I can understand all the Nagi hate, he`s not well-developed character, he`s not bad..but at first volumnes almost ever other character is more interesting than him, not to mention that he looked like idiot at first

But in latest volumes(well..since he learned how to open the gate) I actualy started to like this character and I like him more with every page

. I think the problem was that author did the past arc so quickly, we didn`t had the time to learn to like Nagi...and the past arc was so great that now we have enormous expectations.

PS.Masataka is still IMO a lot cooler

Crimson · Post by **Crimson** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 3:26 pm

kujoe wrote:
locke wrote:You know, that's not so the fact that the story gets off school, it's more the same matter that was discussed about Nagi: It seems to come a bit late, as if the author had suddenly thought "Oh, I sell lots of manga, i mustn't finish it too early, i'm gonna add something to make 25 more volumes... humm ... hummm... And if there was an old affiliate to the natsume family who would be attacked by some freak, humm, yes, and if they were the same that want to fight maya's gang, and, hum, i'd add a new end-of-level boss with our archer character (which really comes from nowhere, appeared in volume 9)..."

Always the magic wand...
I disagree with your calling it an act of a "magic wand." Are you saying that the story is being arbitrary? When I expressed Nagi's power popped out of nowhere, I didn't mean it appeared out of thin air. It has been hinted early on--just not in such a way that could easily be interpreted at first glance. It may be the act of the author to purposely prolong the series, but it has never been unreasonable. There's a gradual progression nevertheless.

FuguTabetai wrote:Nagi is not my favorite character, but I feel there are enough well developed characters out there that you don't have to hang your hat on him. Take volume 5 for instance - particularly page 220. Naig and Bob complain in the (joke) manga that they didn't even show up, and they are the main characters!
They're just venting their frustration. I understand, since I'm probably one of them--but still, I like Nagi for what he simply is, probably even more so than Masataka. To be honest, I'm already tired of all of these "Nagi's an idiot, Masataka is cooler. etc." rantings. That's definitely one's opinion, but from these last few days, this also seems to be the only criterion for judging the entire story of the manga. And since it seems no one is out to defend the hero, then I guess I will.

I don't think anyone is judging the manga based on Nagi. Its true that he's not one of the best characters in the manga but thats not why i dislike the story. Its the fact that is moves around too much and it doesn't have a balance between the characters.

I liked the story at first but then it got repetitive and i saw no conclusion to any of the events. Then you have two enemies acting like they're best friends which makes no sense *kinda like what happened in Ikkitousen*.

But theres alot of sex and fanservice in the manga which is what actually keeps me interested in it. Even though some sex scenes looks like its thrown in to make people more interested in the manga or something...

But on a scale of 1-10, i would give this manga a 5. It has great art and some interesting things but it just doesn't do it as a fighting manga for me.

Banorac · Post by **Banorac** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 5:47 pm

A five ?

Well, I'll just have totake a mental note that I won't be taking any manga advice from you, because I just love Ten Ten ^^

And what's al the stuff about Nagi's hair some time ago ? I think it's funny and when he opens the Dragon's Gate he looks sooo cool ^^

Anyway, I don't see Nagi as a bad character, he's a good char, goves me a good laugh from time to time and he has good passages, though when Masataka was kicking the crap out of Nagi, that sure made me laugh too ^^

Masataka is just my favourite character of the manga, but not like most Masataka fans here, I DON'T detest Nagi

Now, Aya, ... I don't really like her, it would be nice if she was more of a side character, since I think she's a bit of a prancing git ... Though nonetheless, I still love the manga with her up front ...

And for the boob thing, I'm right there with ya, I just can't help from snickering when I see a girl whose boobs are bigger than her head, it's just not right. But it's understandable, it's Oh Great!'s stile and he did do hentai ...

errorrrr · Post by **errorrrr** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:23 pm

As i understand the story, Nagi isn't really interested in someone else than himself, i.e. no women and especially not Aya....

POSSIBLE SPOILER

didn't he say ... the "runt girl" (maya) was like the only women he ever loved?? i think he said that around mid chp 4...

Banorac · Post by **Banorac** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 6:37 pm

errorrrr wrote:
As i understand the story, Nagi isn't really interested in someone else than himself, i.e. no women and especially not Aya....

POSSIBLE SPOILER

didn't he say ... the "runt girl" (maya) was like the only women he ever loved?? i think he said that around mid chp 4...

Yes, I pointed that out a few posts earlier

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 7:38 pm

Wow. A 5 out of 10?

I'll admit it has some problems but it also has some redeeming qualities as a manga.

It seems that Nagi is a big subject as to what is not liked in the manga. I would agree with him being a poorly developed character but so is Bunchishi (My Favorite Character).

So what if Bunchishi had some kind of placement in the past arc, you still don't know where he comes from or what makes him tic. Alot of people including myself like him because of his personality which is what Nagi lacks. This brings me to my point.

The biggest problem with the manga is, I'm sure someone else has already said, that it is much to drawn out with plot history and chapters dedicated to the backround of things other than the characters. This is a big letdown since there are so many characters. Nagi's development has not been very evident after 10 volumes. Even Bunchishi got more face time.

The thing is though, I doubt Oh! Great will end it anytime soon. He still has a lot to work with and hopefully develop. Alot of manga do last longer than just 11 or 12 volumes (Inuyasha, Dragonball).

As of now I'd rate this manga an 8 out of 10 because while alot of the characters are not developed right now, I'm sure they will be. Plus some of my favorite characters anywhere exist in TT.

Crimson · Post by **Crimson** » Wed Apr 14, 2004 11:09 pm

Somehow i'm thinking the manga will end when they have the next tournament. I don't know how long Oh! Great plans on making it but he is also doing Air Gear which is currently at vol 4. Maybe he will end Ten Ten soon to work on Air Gear and any other projects.

I don't really see how far Ten Ten could really go anyway. Unless they just plan on adding a bunch more characters and having another 4 volume worth of flashbacks.

and i gave it a 5 out of 10 mainly beacuse the story just doesn't grab me. I love the artwork and i enjoy the ecchiness, but i just don't really like how things are developed. But i would gladly buy this manga because the artwork is just top notch, i appreciate anything with good art.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 9:03 am

errorrrr wrote:
As i understand the story, Nagi isn't really interested in someone else than himself, i.e. no women and especially not Aya....

POSSIBLE SPOILER

didn't he say ... the "runt girl" (maya) was like the only women he ever loved?? i think he said that around mid chp 4...

Yep. And there is the whole Maya / Aya dynamic involved there too. Things aren't as simple as some people paint them to be around here. I think Aya actually has some interesting character development on her own - although I have to admit in the first two volumes she is totally playing a typical manga role in her one-sided devotion to Nagi. But that starts to change as we see her try to develop herself into someone that can compete with Maya...

jacko · Post by **jacko** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:31 pm

I don't dislike Nagi for poor development, I dislike his attitude.

Kagutsuchi · Post by **Kagutsuchi** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 8:48 pm

I also hate Nagi quite a bit. Not so much for the poor developement, or the attitude. Mostly because his character archetype has been done to death ! Please stop beating this dead horse.

Dear lord, the main character of every single shounen/fighting/sports/whatever anime is exactly this sort of personality. It gets far too repetive and predictable. I'm particularly sick of seeing the hero pull out last minute super attacks or summoning power from nowhere and defeating the enemy in one hit. As my friends and I call this, "pulling a Goku". And we've already seen this from Nagi TWICE at the bowling alley. Twice again, at the two times he activated his Earth Dragon. Very boring, and also cheesy.

As many other people have said, Masataka should get more screentime (pagetime?). Bob too. Yes yes, they get to fight in Volume 11... but I highly doubt it will make up for the total neglect they've gotten up to this point.

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Thu Apr 15, 2004 10:54 pm

Not everybody gets to be the main character. It's the author's call.

As for the suitability of Nagi as a protagonist, Oh Great! has clearly decided to endow his hero with a bunch of flaws. This allows for the kind of character growth necessary for a proper heroic drama. Nothing makes for a more boring read than a paragon-of-perfection main character readily dispatching every supposed "challenge" he encounters. This is the kind of problem that comes up a lot in Dungeons & Dragons novels (Drizzt Do'Urden comes readily to mind).

As a result of these flaws, he isn't the favorite character of a lot of folks (myself included). That doesn't mean he shouldn't be the main character.

SkullKnight · Post by **SkullKnight** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:41 am

Do all the events and characters have to fit something rational in our minds? Does the main character have to act like a main character?
No.

I like TT in this regard, its a work of art in progress that is not always what you expect.

Damn all this popularity is making me worry, I still don't have all of the volumes yet.

I hope vol. 1 is still available...... some where.

jacko · Post by **jacko** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:05 pm

I never said I have a problem with Nagi being the main character. I just dislike him, that's all. He can be the main character for all I care... I only care about a good manga.

Isuzu · Post by **Isuzu** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 6:30 pm

First of all, I don't like Nagi. He's just a damn idiot.

But, that's not the main problem for me... the main problem of the whole manga is, in my opinion, "F" - since they appeared for the first time, the manga began getting fucked up (well, perhaps, 'F' stands for 'fucked'). With the appeareance of F, you get to see more of Nagi and Aya, and that sucks, too. And, I don't like the whole F-group. They just lack charisma, and they lack skills that seem interesting - I mean, none of them has anything you haven't seen in some different way before already, so I think they're useless. I hope they disappear soon.

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Wed Apr 21, 2004 8:18 pm

I completely agree with you there. F really appeared in volume 9, the guy that shoots arrows (Ishiyumi?) fights Nagi and then he is absent in volume 10 with ANOTHER one appearing. You'd think after he was healed he would return to the fighting but no. It's a problem that so many characters are introduced and then thrown aside to make room for others. I know that the F guys aren't new, there was talk about them earlier than this I think, but the character roster continues to grow after Vol. 10. Souichiro's dad, madoka and probably more are in vol 11 & 12.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:54 am

Why is having new characters a problem? I have no problem following the story or keeping straight who is who. I like the complexity.

If you are having a lot of trouble, I keep character lists around that should make it easy.

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:16 am

It's not that i don't know the characters, the names don't matter anyway. My point is that new characters have more of a backstory than ones we already know. An example is Tsumuji and Masataka. Masataka (being a favorite in the forums) has less of a backstory than Tsumuji Mataza. Obviously, masataka gets more action in vol. 11 and I haven't seen all of it.

The thing is, it's not that big of a problem if things are resolved with the characters soon, but people believe that Oh! Great is wrapping things up or will end the manga abruptly. (not me, I have a little more faith).

Banorac · Post by **Banorac** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:16 am

The last time there's to much complaining about Ten Ten in my opinion, ... It's a great manga, and yes, it might be a little difficult for some to comprehend when sudden things happen, but those things happen in real life too, so what's the big deal ...

Just read the manga, enjoy it, if you don't understand a chapter, read it again,... and again if you're a little daft. It's not kwantumphysics, it's a story, meant to be read as a window of fun, don't go complaining that the window is red and you'd like blue, just jump through and HAVE FUN !!!

Owkay, enough with the metaphores, just dive into the stroy, it's MUCH more enjoyable if you're not commenting on every pannel in the manga ...

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:20 am

I agree, but the board is about what's wrong with the manga. In other words complaints with it. Don't get me wrong, Fugu has created an evil disease where I can't get enough Tenjo tenge in manga or anime form. It has become one of my favorites but as with anything there are complaints to be had so I just shared mine.

Banorac · Post by **Banorac** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:29 am

Well, call me a wanker, but my first contact with Ten Ten was a wallpaper of Isuzu's behind

Then I saw one of Maya in some sort of red dress, holding a katana. After that I began searching the web for the manga and possible translations, that's how I found out about Fugu and his work and I still thank him every day in my head for making this site

I also buy them in French, but only after I was hooked through this great site

Isuzu · Post by **Isuzu** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 12:05 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:Why is having new characters a problem? I have no problem following the story or keeping straight who is who. I like the complexity.

Having new characters isn't a problem. Having new, boring characters is, and that's the problem about F (and most people who appeared since volume 9).

solidis1 · Post by **solidis1** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 3:22 pm

holy crap banorac! that is exactly how I got into it as well. For the time, those were the only two wallpapers that were on the net other than this site. I then looked for tt and have been reading it ever since.

Crimson · Post by **Crimson** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 7:38 pm

The thread is about things we don't like in the manga, so i don't know why people are complaining that we are complaining about the manga. I mean if you don't like our complaints then ignore the thread...

I mean its not like we HATE the manga, we are just talking about the things we don't like in it.

I also agree with the number of characters showing up, just too much people are being introduced before things are resolved with previous one's. Now we have Nagi's dad into the picture, and you know he's going to have people working for him which adds even more characters.

Anyway, i'm glad the manga is now starting to focus more on characters such as Masataka.

Kagutsuchi wrote:I also hate Nagi quite a bit. Not so much for the poor developement, or the attitude. Mostly because his character archetype has been done to death ! Please stop beating this dead horse.

Dear lord, the main character of every single shounen/fighting/sports/whatever anime is exactly this sort of personality. It gets far too repetive and predictable. I'm particularly sick of seeing the hero pull out last minute super attacks or summoning power from nowhere and defeating the enemy in one hit. As my friends and I call this, "pulling a Goku". And we've already seen this from Nagi TWICE at the bowling alley. Twice again, at the two times he activated his Earth Dragon. Very boring, and also cheesy.

As many other people have said, Masataka should get more screentime (pagetime?). Bob too. Yes yes, they get to fight in Volume 11... but I highly doubt it will make up for the total neglect they've gotten up to this point.

I agree with you, his personality is too cliche. And speaking of *Pulling a Goku*,i think that reverse super saiyan thing he does with his hair is pretty lame.

burrowowl · Post by **burrowowl** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:49 pm

The only problem I have with all the new characters that keep getting thrown into the mix is that I went through the first couple of volumes presuming that this story was going to be fairly concise: the story would progress from Souichiro and Bob showing up at school through to Souichiro defeating the wicked Enforcement Group. When the "past arc" was introduced, I saw it as a nice way of showing the backstories for some of the main characters, and I expected (and still expect) to see more flashbacks that will shed light upon the motivations of the primary characters of the story.

Every time a new character is introduced, I get the feeling that the eventual conclusion of the story is being delayed. When Tsumuji (F) was introduced, a whole volume was spent setting up the new conflict and backstory. I get the impression that more of this will happen as more members of F become prominent. The Tetsusen arc (Mr Rubberband Guy) was much shorter, and felt like more of a natural forward movement for Souichiro (he started to understand his abilities much more during that part).

If future "adversary appears out of nowhere" plot arcs are more like the Tetsusen arc than the Tsumuji arc (which was cool, but didn't seem to take us anywhere), then I'm quite happy. It's not that I want the story to just stop, but I do want it to eventually be finished.

Then we can get a Bunshichi spin-off, where we get to follow his comedic hijinks as he trys to finally graduate and get into a good college.

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 9:56 pm

Even though I'm not too fond of having many characters myself (think Yu Yu Hakusho or your favorite Naruto), I believe it's quite inevitable that certain things will be left unanswered or unattended--since a story is told from a limited number of perspectives--most of the time, only one.

I also think that having many characters is not, in itself, a problem. There are other instances when this actually works--at the very least to a certain degree. Good examples are Slam Dunk, Juuni Kokki and of course, GTO. Besides, the story of Tenjo Tenge involves families and a school--having a few characters is actually unlikely in this regard. Live with it, and just take it for what it is.

I think the real complaint that seems to be surfacing here is not the fact that there are many characters at all. It's more of the fact that the characters one thinks should be getting the spotlight are underplayed for others that don't deserve such attention--well, at least according to one's opinion.

But hey, Bunshichi doesn't even get that much page time and the guy is still my favorite.

Sacrin · Post by **Sacrin** » Thu Apr 22, 2004 11:15 pm

I understand what you mean about there being a lot of chars. There are a lot of people that we may never know that whole story, but then agin a lot of animes and manga do that. It's anoying, but they are trying to let you fill in some of the holes your self. It would almost be imposible to cover everyone and everything. There also has always been more to the entire story than can be seen. Chars can pop out of no where because they could have been behind the senes the whole time. If everyone waits, Oh! Great will finish all story that needs to be finished (see "Majin Devil"). He's great at keeping you guessing till the end. ^_^

Even though I don't agree with all the comments on this post, I see where a lot are coming from. I think this is a great discution!

I would also like to add that any one that reads this manga for the "sex and fanservice" should just not post here. I'm sorry, but a lot of us see this as a hell of a lot more than that...Even though it is nice bonus... *^_^*

kagezuchi · Post by **kagezuchi** » Fri Apr 23, 2004 4:29 am

nagi's character type is very cliched, yeah.

quite boring. and when i saw the hair color changing thing, i was like geez, this is so original!

aya is ok, i guess, although she fell in love with nagi so fast, i was like huh??? i don't like that she will probably be stronger than maya, because maya's my fave tenten chick. funny little midget kid morphing into robo babe. tight.