Is anyone here up on their ancient Japanese history?

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Mon Jul 05, 2004 9:43 am

I've translated all of the Oh! Great long interview from the Tenjo Tenge special, but it turns out there is a lot of reference to the mythologies of the Kojiki and Nihonshoki Japanese myths/histories. Is anyone here up on their ancient Japanese history / mythology? Would you like to read over what I've translated and make sure that what I've got is square with accepted thought in those areas?

It has been at least seven years since I've looked at any Japanese history of any sort, and I only read briefly on the old Japanese mythologies / histories.

The stuff that I have translated is up at http://tjtg.mangatranslation.com/TJTG_s ... Trans.html if you are interested. When I finish and actually distribute this, I'll send out the pictures as well (probably original japanese with pop-ups since there is some complicated layout) but I could put out image edits too. It doesn't really matter to me - I doubt any of this will ever see publication in America.

yume · Post by **yume** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:54 pm

Hey Fugu. I'm not an expert on Japanese history and mythology by any stretch of the imagination, but Asian mythology is a hobby of mine so I read over your translation. Most everything seems square, but I can't read Japanese so I don't know if the rough spots I'm hitting are because of the way it was written in the interview or it's because of your unfamiliarity with the mythology. But I'll try my best.

Re: Susanooh
Susanooh is the younger brother of Amaterasu, the Sun Goddess. He's considered to be the Storm God, IIRC. Basically, the story goes that he petitioned to visit his sister at her home where upon arriving, he then threw a childish fit. Amaterasu was appalled at the behavior and hid in a cave, plunging the world into darkness. (This is the mythological story explaining the solar eclipse.) The efforts to get her out of the cave are what led up to the common Japanese symbolism of the red sun with the rays shooting out.

Susanooh was exiled to Izumo. That's where he encountered Yamato no Orochi, who was about to eat Kushinada-hime. For some reason, I remember something about her seven older sisters being eaten by seven of Yamato's heads, but don't take my word for it. Susanooh tricks Yamato by getting him drunk and kills him. Amenomurakumo no Tsugiri comes from Yamato's tail. Susanooh presented this sword to Amaterasu and she forgave him for his hissy fit. He then goes on to marry Kushinada-hime and populates the coast with his children. I think that's what the interview refers to -- Susanooh's evolving characteristics. Just from this alone, we've seen him as a petulant child, then as a young hero, then a husband and father.

Re: Izanami
This is the one that's giving me rough spots and confusing me.

I'll just summarize the creation myth it's referring to. Izanami and Izanagi were the female and male dieties that gave birth to Japan out of the chaos that was earth. (In the beginning heaven and earth were not divided. I always assumed that was where the title of TenTen came from.)

Izanami is the female god though, from my understanding, and Izanagi the male. Izanami also gave birth to the Japanese pantheon, but when she gave birth to the god of fire, she was burned so badly she died. Izanagi was pissed so he cut up the god of fire and went after her. He tried to find her in the underworld, but she told him that she'd already eaten the food in the land of the dead. She wanted to return though so she told him to wait while she went to ask permission. But Izanagi didn't want to wait so he followed her and saw that she was rotting and infested with maggots. Izanami got mad and sent a bunch of monsters to chase him. (See how it's kind of a cross between Persephone and Eurydice?)

Izanagi blocks the pass between the land of the living and dead, and then returns to the land of the living. When he's washing off the filth from the underworld, he gives birth to three more gods -- Amaterasu (Sun), Tsuki-yomi (Moon), and Susanooh (storm).

I hope that helped somewhat.

EDIT:
Something just occurred to me as I glanced at your translation again. By "Satoeri," I think this might be what I know as "Satori," which is a key concept of Zen Buddhism. It refers to that sudden flash of awareness, or individual enlightenment. Could this be what he's referring to when he says "from Susanooh to Satoeri"?

Natsume Maya · Post by **Natsume Maya** » Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:22 pm

yume wrote: Something just occurred to me as I glanced at your translation again. By "Satoeri," I think this might be what I know as "Satori," which is a key concept of Zen Buddhism. It refers to that sudden flash of awareness, or individual enlightenment. Could this be what he's referring to when he says "from Susanooh to Satoeri"?

I haven't read through everything, but I believe SatoEri is the nickname for Sato Eriko. Japanese like to shorten names, like Kimura Takuya become "KimuTaku" or personal computer becomes "pasocon". Note the later reference to Sato Eriko in the interview.

Sato Eriko is the "nice body" idol/actress who plays Cutie Honey in the recent live action Cutie Honey movie.

But having a quick look at Fugu's translation, I think he may have realised later in his translation that it was a reference to a woman, not a place.

yume · Post by **yume** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:13 am

Ah ha! That makes much more sense in context of the translation. Thanks.

pv82 · Post by **pv82** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:44 am

All these girls have one thing in common and you got to read the interview to find out (Check Fugu's First post before asking how to read the interview). They all are kinda cute, I can see why Oh Great would like them.
Koike Eiko
http://www.taod.com/modules.php?name=ga ... 87&p=16353

Nemoto Harumi (this girl has here own PS2 game. WTF

)
http://japanese-photobooks.com/heisei15 ... arumi.html
http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?catego ... ts_id=3298&

Sato Eriko
http://www.japanhero.com/actor-studio%2 ... _eriko.htm

http://jbox.cybrhost.com/cgi-bin/disp.c ... =332&y=480

Natsume Maya was right, this girl is going to be in the Re: Cutey Honey, Live action version of Go Nagi's anime. BTW, The CG animation looks pretty good on it.

I tried to get the safest stuff I could but some of these ladies don't work safe, espcially Nemoto Harumi, she's got no hang ups on her body.

Agent_Wax · Post by **Agent_Wax** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 6:05 am

1). http://images.google.com/images?q=hyodo ... a=N&tab=wi

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&l ... com+miruko

The Sanspo page should have brief bios, if you're interested.

2). Can't remember much about the Susano and Kushinada story, but Masamune Shirow wrote Orion loosely based on the legend. Not sure how much of it is faithful, however.

3). And I'll take Harumi Nemoto over Eriko Sato any day of any week.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:24 am

Natsume Maya wrote:
yume wrote: Something just occurred to me as I glanced at your translation again. By "Satoeri," I think this might be what I know as "Satori," which is a key concept of Zen Buddhism. It refers to that sudden flash of awareness, or individual enlightenment. Could this be what he's referring to when he says "from Susanooh to Satoeri"?
I haven't read through everything, but I believe SatoEri is the nickname for Sato Eriko. Japanese like to shorten names, like Kimura Takuya become "KimuTaku" or personal computer becomes "pasocon". Note the later reference to Sato Eriko in the interview.

Sato Eriko is the "nice body" idol/actress who plays Cutie Honey in the recent live action Cutie Honey movie.

But having a quick look at Fugu's translation, I think he may have realised later in his translation that it was a reference to a woman, not a place.

SatoEri is Sato Erika - the hottie. I thought the first time I put the name as Sato Erika, and then afterwards kept it SatoEri (as they do in the interview.) Yeah, by that point they were just talking about boobies, so I didn't think there would be any confusion. (Put SatoEri in a google images search - you quickly realize it has nothing to do with creation mythos.)

remydat · Post by **remydat** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 11:38 am

Just to add a few things. From what I remember, when Amaterasu was holed up in her cave, Uzume begin singing and dancing wildly. This caused Amaterasu to take a peek out which yume pointed out is where the depiction of the rays comes from. When she peeks out, she sees her reflection in a mirror with jewels placed around it that the gods placed there to entice her. She goes out for a better look at herself and is then grabbed by the other gods and placed back in the sky. This is why the Mirror and Jewel are sacred treasures.

As for the sword Susano presented, the name changes after a son of a legendary/mythical emperor uses it to help defeat the Ebisu. While hunting for the Ebisu, this prince is trapped when the Ebisu surrounds the prince with a circle of fire in the tall grass. The prince escapes by using the Murakumo sword to cut through the tall fire grass. And thus from that day forward it is called the Kusanagi-no-Tsurugi or grass cutting sword.

kujoe · Post by **kujoe** » Wed Jul 07, 2004 1:47 pm

About that sword--I remember hitori sharing some info regarding a "real life Reiki" with Fugu mentioning seeing the Kusanagi sword in a museum. Anyway, it just makes me wonder if Oh! Great was making a connection somewhere between Reiki and Amenomurakumo (or Kusanagi as it's now called) in his manga. I'm actually impressed that there's a lot more into this story than I previously imagined.

Post by **FuguTabetai** » Thu Jul 08, 2004 8:58 am

Thanks, this is all great information. Gold stars for everyone!

fugu