Strongest juukenbu member

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Post by zapkhiel » Sun Aug 07, 2005 8:11 am

(English by fugu) that instant was the birth of what has been called the strongest member in the history of the Jyuukenbu group
from how fugu translated it, i think that Masataka means Aya in this statement since he almost certainly doesn't mean himself and Nagi & Bob don't really fit for the strongest and as some already said we don't really know what is meant with "strongest" also nagi joining the group has probably a big impact on Aya (like changes something in her in relation with Nagi), not to mention that Aya is rather head strong :-)

and about the true demon and true warrior well i see it very likely that both Nagi and Masataka will fit into those roles (like keeping the balance between power and skill - two edges of the same blade)

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Post by FuguTabetai » Sun Aug 07, 2005 12:05 pm

It really isn't clear to me who they are talking about in the first volume when they talk about the birth of the strongest Jyuu Ken Bu member. I'm not sure it was clear to Oh! Great - I think Tenjo Tenge has grown beyond its original scope...

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Post by zapkhiel » Sun Aug 07, 2005 2:01 pm

i don't think it is 100% clear to anyone, except perhaps to Oh Great!, so don't worry :-)

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Post by yes/no » Mon Aug 22, 2005 6:23 pm

I think Shinn is the strongest, if he didn't suicide, he would've owned Mitsuomi ten times over, actually he was owning him ten times over before he suicided.

Bob is an insignificant character, hes the only foreign guy (non asian) there he doesn't even fit anywhere in the story. So far everyone is related to the clan problem cept him. He's as important as alien guy, asshat and transexual whore.

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Post by Halon » Mon Aug 22, 2005 8:16 pm

The Jyuukenbu seems to be very strong, in its entire history most of the people who were in the club have been strong or became extremely strong, Mitsuomi, Masataka, Nagi, Bob, Aya, Maya, Shin, and Tawara.

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Post by agmaster » Tue Aug 23, 2005 2:05 pm

yes/no wrote:I think Shinn is the strongest, if he didn't suicide, he would've owned Mitsuomi ten times over, actually he was owning him ten times over before he suicided.

Bob is an insignificant character, hes the only foreign guy (non asian) there he doesn't even fit anywhere in the story. So far everyone is related to the clan problem cept him. He's as important as alien guy, asshat and transexual whore.
Much as I like Bob, I fear this chode to be true in his statement. It's been 2 volumes and not hide nor hair of him. Not to mention the anime and it's surreptitious ignoring of him. Bob just seems a sidekick early on for Nagi.
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Post by Vampire Advent » Tue Aug 23, 2005 6:20 pm

yes/no wrote:I think Shinn is the strongest, if he didn't suicide, he would've owned Mitsuomi ten times over, actually he was owning him ten times over before he suicided.

Bob is an insignificant character, hes the only foreign guy (non asian) there he doesn't even fit anywhere in the story. So far everyone is related to the clan problem cept him. He's as important as alien guy, asshat and transexual whore.
Actually no without his dragons eye shinn is second rate as a martial artist. Bunshichi proved this.

As for Bob he is realizing that perhaps what Mitsoumi said about maya not being competent enough to bring out his potential was the correct. Mitsoumi has his eyes on Bob. Cause he was impressed back in the bowling alley with him.

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Post by kk1 » Tue Aug 23, 2005 11:34 pm

Vampire Advent wrote:
yes/no wrote:I think Shinn is the strongest, if he didn't suicide, he would've owned Mitsuomi ten times over, actually he was owning him ten times over before he suicided.

Bob is an insignificant character, hes the only foreign guy (non asian) there he doesn't even fit anywhere in the story. So far everyone is related to the clan problem cept him. He's as important as alien guy, asshat and transexual whore.
Actually no without his dragons eye shinn is second rate as a martial artist. Bunshichi proved this.

.
I don't think that's quite true, Shin was concentrating ,more on not losing control and killing everyone than fighting Bunshichi.

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Post by Halon » Fri Aug 26, 2005 10:52 am

Its hard to say, Tawara and Shin are almost about the same, its hard to tell who would win between them if they really fought at full power.
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Post by Vampire Advent » Fri Aug 26, 2005 12:51 pm

Halon wrote:Its hard to say, Tawara and Shin are almost about the same, its hard to tell who would win between them if they really fought at full power.
Without dragons eye tawara would be the clear victor with the eye then shin.

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Post by Halon » Thu Sep 01, 2005 11:55 am

yes, you have a point there, shin relies too much on his dragon eye, without it he still would be strong just not as strong as tawara.
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Post by Hollowshingami » Thu Sep 01, 2005 12:38 pm

Shin definitely relied on it too much. It can clearly be seen when Shin and Mitsuomi fought in the dojo. In the beginning Shin couldn't touch Mistuomi. But when he activated the Dragon's Eye, he basically owned him. It's possible Aya could become the strongest member in the history of the Jyuu Ken Bu. If what's revealed in chapter 87 is right, then the Dragon Eye has infinite ki that would mean that person is almost unstoppable. Or at the very least far stronger than most people.

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Post by Sota » Thu Sep 01, 2005 4:06 pm

dragon eye does not have infiniti ki,consume infinity ki,so,a dragon eye user might have a great endurance and stamina

i think the strongest is shin with dragon eye,in raw power tawara,and in martial arts i vote for masataka ;D
mitsuomi just stand for 3 minutes so ,not too powerfull,and without the acelerated metabolism,he is not any better than masataka

(sorry bad english :P)

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Post by Hollowshingami » Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:13 pm

Oh, it consumes infinite ki. My mistake.

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Post by Dark_Harlequin » Sat Sep 03, 2005 7:01 am

Well I think the strongest is something ( as some poeple before me pointed out) you can't define.

For example If you go after the raw mass of muscles Mitsuomi is superstrong for 3 Minutes. And in normal state Bunshichi is clearly at the top.

Then if you go after the devastation a person could cause there is shin who, when he freaked out in the battle with Mitsuomi badly injured several strong persons.
But then we come to the battle betwen shin and Bunshichi again. there we have to ask iof shin let bunshichi win or if bunshichi only won because shin gave away the reiki. I think there it is best to just look at the result and accept that it is a fact that Tawara has beaten the crap out of shin and that only the result counts. But that' only one way to look at it.

And then there is Masataka who, in his way of fighting and handeling fights, is truely unique.

I think we just have to admit that there is no "right" answer to this question and it's impossible to answer. :x 8)
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Post by Hollowshingami » Sat Sep 03, 2005 6:01 pm

I think the foreshadowing in the beginning of the manga is that in terms of power or ability and skill there will be a strongest in Jyukenbu. But you do have a point.

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Post by kk1 » Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:53 am

Everyone has to answer "what is strength?" for themselves, it's the theme of the book. So being strong is different things to different people.

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Post by agmaster » Fri Sep 23, 2005 9:23 am

HollowShinigami has a lame name but the best signature ever. Just sayin'
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Post by jAy - Al » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:48 am

Hi guys, Im new to the forums. Nice to meet you all.

Anyway, about the Shin vs Bunshichi discussion. If Shin was really holding back in their fight because he was afraid to kill Bunshichi if he goes Berserk, shouldnt we also say the same to Bunshichi?

I mean doesnt Bunshichi also have his own Berserk Mode? I remember one instance in the manga where one of his classmates in middle school recognized him and told his friends about him. We then see him in that guy's flashback standing over a pile of bodies in Hirokiri Mountain Pass with a berserk-ish face. I mean that guy, who basically killed alot of people back then, is absolutely not the Tawara we came to know and like.

Then there's also the time when he was rammed by a car when he was chasing Emi. He also seemed to have gone berserk at that time and basically sent the car flying with a kick.

So basically if Shin was afraid of killing Bunshichi when he goes berserk. Wasnt Bunshichi also was keeping himself from going berserk so that he wont kill Shin?

This is just the impression Ive got from that incident, you guys can correct me if im wrong, though.

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Post by Ayato_Kamina » Mon Dec 12, 2005 7:07 pm

you make a good point jay, but i think tawara is awesome, however the dragons eye is probably more powerful than him. Shin had a weak spirit and thats why the dragon's eye was too much for him, his father said so when he first imprisoned him. A weak spirit and an ability that consumes infinite ki is not a good combination, hence shin going berserk and just the power of the dragons eye is seen.

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Post by kk1 » Tue Dec 13, 2005 12:58 am

Well even Nagi and Bob were kinda skeptical about Bunshichi (it was him telling the stories you mentioned) embelishing those stories. Also the picture of him on top of a pile of bodies was n't a real picture (I think it even says so) just like an artists interpretation. But even if those are both assumed to be true we did see the result of Bunshichi vs a berserk Shin at the Shin vs Mitsuomi fight, he got his ass kicked with everyone else. End of story.

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Post by jAy - Al » Tue Dec 13, 2005 4:01 pm

Shin going berserk in his fight with Mitsoumi is basically the same as what Im trying to say about the Shin vs Bunshichi fight. Just like in his fight with Shin in the bus stop, its possible that Bunshichi was also keeping himself from going berserk when he tried to stop Berserk Shin from beating up Mitsoumi. I mean we know how important friendship is to Bunshichi. He would never forgive himself if he kills one his friends.

Besides, he was just trying to stop Shin from killing Mitsoumi, he wasnt even nearly half as serious or angry(which, admittedly, he paid it dearly with broken ribs) compared to when he fought Shin at the bus stop. Also, Ive checked the scene where he was standing over a pile of bodies in Hirokir Mountain Pass, and your right its not the actual scene but for Oh Great! to still put a berserk-ish face in there should tell us something. Then there's also the car incident.

And about Nagi and Bob doubting Bunshichi. Who does not doubt Bunshichi? Nobody's really afraid of him. One of the Katana members in the Past said it best. He might be the strongest guy in school, but he's not really scary. That guy even said that he's not afraid of Bunshichi when he compared him to Shin.

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Post by kk1 » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:46 am

Sorry there is no super powerful berserker Bunshichi.

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Post by jAy - Al » Wed Dec 14, 2005 4:18 am

Well Bunshichi may not have a Berserk Mode, but I think its also probable that he has one based on what Ive seen of him. We can probably just agree to disagree here.

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Post by kk1 » Wed Dec 14, 2005 12:52 pm

jAy - Al wrote:Well Bunshichi may not have a Berserk Mode, but I think its also probable that he has one based on what Ive seen of him. We can probably just agree to disagree here.
You can disagree all you want but it's not even probable, only Shin,Aya and Nagi went berserk and it's because of their red feather powers. Bunshichi has none, of all the characters who might have a berserk mode Bunshichi isn't one. Makiko had a better chance of a berserker mode before she lost her arm.

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Post by jAy - Al » Wed Dec 14, 2005 5:46 pm

Oh really? So your basically saying that only Red Feathers can go berserk because of their Dragon's Gates? If you can give me a direct quote in the manga that says something like that, plz do show it to me. The instances were Shin, Aya and Nagi have gone berserk was when their Dragon's Gates were open. But try to also remember that Masataka also went berserk in his fight with Nagi in vol.1 where he did not open any Dragon's Gate. (Heck, does the Takayanagi Family even have a Dragon's Gate? Theyre more like one of the White Feather families to me).

Shin, Aya and Nagi went berserk because of the overwhelming powers of their Red Feather abilities. But thats not the only way for someone to go berserk. Emotions like Anger, Hate, Sadness, Lust, and being scared can also make people go nuts. And Masataka went berserk because of one of those emotions. If I remember correctly, Maya even commented how bloodlusted Masataka was at that time.

If you really think that Bunshichi going berserk is completely impossible, then atleast try to refute my reasons I wrote in my previous posts about why I think its possible that he has a berserk mode.

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Post by kk1 » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:00 am

jAy - Al wrote:Oh really? So your basically saying that only Red Feathers can go berserk because of their Dragon's Gates? If you can give me a direct quote in the manga that says something like that, plz do show it to me. The instances were Shin, Aya and Nagi have gone berserk was when their Dragon's Gates were open. But try to also remember that Masataka also went berserk in his fight with Nagi in vol.1 where he did not open any Dragon's Gate. (Heck, does the Takayanagi Family even have a Dragon's Gate? Theyre more like one of the White Feather families to me).

.
Berserk people aren't able to pull their punch like Masataka did with Nagi, so while he was reallllly pissed he wasn't berserk like Shin ,Aya and Nagi who had no control over themselves. Look I don't really care make up Bunshichi having a beserk mode for yourself if it makes you happy but there is nothing in the manga to support it, complain to Oh! Great if you don't like it.[/b]

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Post by geohound03 » Thu Dec 15, 2005 4:09 pm

Just a couple of quick points:

The strongest member isn't neccesarily the true warrior. Personally I think Nagi or Aya will be the strongest member Tako talked of, but I do think that he will be the true warrior. The reason I think the strongest will be Nagi or Aya is purely because of their special abilities. But strongest doesn't always mean best, other factors come into a fight like defence etc.

Next, I see a lot of people both praising and digging Bunshichi. My main point is that he isn't as much of a side character as people try to make out. From my observations I've noticed that he is the only character who has a true view of whats happening. He never seems paticularly anxious about whats happening... maybe because he has predicted it? I think the scene in which Masataka takes out Madoka is very indicitive of this where he is using the chess board, but no one else seems to have noticed this. As for being the strongest, I think most people are right in saying he won't be. In terms of brute force, I've probably have to say Bunshichi is the strongest. But you have to analyse all aspects of a warrior. Masataka has the potential to be a much better all-rounder than him.

Basically, while Bunshichi and Masa might both be excellent allrounders when it comes to fighting, I don't think either of these characters will be the strongest from the club.

ps. How can anyone say Shin? Although she isn't as strong yet, Aya has a much better control on her powers than Shin did, ergo she will be more powerful than him at least.

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Post by jAy - Al » Thu Dec 15, 2005 5:11 pm

Well, following the cliche of fighting manga, the main character/s will always be the strongest in the end. Oh Great! has pretty much hinted many times that that strongest will between Nagi, Aya, Masataka or Bob.

Although if we talk about at the current moment, I dont think theyre there yet. And I completely agree with you about Bunshichi not being just a side character.

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Post by agmaster » Mon Jan 30, 2006 1:35 pm

Bob? When's the last time that guy did anything but chill in a hospital bed?
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Post by Hollowshingami » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:10 pm

Nothing. He probably still in there. 8) Hopefully, we get to see him soon. Like in the next couple of chapters....Unless, Oh Great takes a long time with this past-past arc.

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Post by agmaster » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:51 pm

OG take a long time with a flashback that IS pertinent to the story? When would he ever do that...oh, wait.
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Post by lucky_me_noodle » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:40 pm

I believe that the least most expected will become or is the underlying the strongiest of all. It's not only about strength, but also with "will".

First impression is not everything... I would hope or believe that writers tend to start with a character that progresses through and through... Unless they're not important to the manga...

But in any case who knows.
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Post by lucky_me_noodle » Thu Mar 02, 2006 10:55 pm

geohound03 wrote:Just a couple of quick points:

The strongest member isn't neccesarily the true warrior. Personally I think Nagi or Aya will be the strongest member Tako talked of, but I do think that he will be the true warrior. The reason I think the strongest will be Nagi or Aya is purely because of their special abilities. But strongest doesn't always mean best, other factors come into a fight like defence etc.

Next, I see a lot of people both praising and digging Bunshichi. My main point is that he isn't as much of a side character as people try to make out. From my observations I've noticed that he is the only character who has a true view of whats happening. He never seems paticularly anxious about whats happening... maybe because he has predicted it? I think the scene in which Masataka takes out Madoka is very indicitive of this where he is using the chess board, but no one else seems to have noticed this. As for being the strongest, I think most people are right in saying he won't be. In terms of brute force, I've probably have to say Bunshichi is the strongest. But you have to analyse all aspects of a warrior. Masataka has the potential to be a much better all-rounder than him.

Basically, while Bunshichi and Masa might both be excellent allrounders when it comes to fighting, I don't think either of these characters will be the strongest from the club.

ps. How can anyone say Shin? Although she isn't as strong yet, Aya has a much better control on her powers than Shin did, ergo she will be more powerful than him at least.
I don't mean to be fickle but I agree with you.

Opps sorry for the double post Xp
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Post by dareka » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:20 am

I'm also voting for Masataka. Although the direction of Manga seems to headed towards Nagi...

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Post by HappyStealer » Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:09 am

doubt that bunschichi would be the strongest. With the way manga goes, usually the strongest person develops over time and bunshi is a minor character. I see only main focused characters as being the strongest witht he way managa lives up to its reputation. Also, wiht the way thigns look, bunshi is at the height of his powers while others are still learning about theirs.

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Post by BlackArtistik » Sun Jul 02, 2006 5:38 pm

From what I'm reading, a lot of people seem to like Bunshichi (and I'm not gonna front, he's one of my favorite characters in the manga also) but in the grand scale of the manga, he's nothing more than a mentor (like Maya is) to the main characters. Also people say it's cliche to have the main characters become the strongest, but some cliches (including this) are almost impossible to ignore. I'd say more than likely, this'll be the "strengths" of the characters:
Mystic Powers: Nagi (If he masters the dragon gates, he'll be a wrecking machine.)/Aya (When she masters her sword skills and the Dragon's Eye... then hoo-rah.)
Martial Arts: Masataka (Seems to have a better grasp of battle tactics and judgement than others. Also, notice that whenever he gets "serious" he seems to resemble Mitsuomi [refer to when Kagurazaka explained to Izumi on why his cheek was swollen Although the art style has changed since then, the look in Mitsuomi/Serious Masataka are almost the same].)
Speed: Bob (Now that Bob has learned to read his opponents' attacks in battle, and if he mastered this to a point where even the dragon powers would have trouble tracking him, combined with his natural strength...)

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Post by FuguTabetai » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:20 pm

I'll tell you what, I'm excited for TT to hop back into the present arc, but it seems really interesting right now.

I'm particularly interested in seeing how Bob and Masataka (more on the White Feather side of things) develop.

We've been spending a lot of time learning about Red Feather powers, history, and background. I hope we'll see more time spent on White Feather stuff as well...

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Post by BlackArtistik » Sun Jul 02, 2006 6:27 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:I'll tell you what, I'm excited for TT to hop back into the present arc, but it seems really interesting right now.

I'm particularly interested in seeing how Bob and Masataka (more on the White Feather side of things) develop.

We've been spending a lot of time learning about Red Feather powers, history, and background. I hope we'll see more time spent on White Feather stuff as well...

Word. Although I hope they don't do an entire volume of chapters on the White Feathers.

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Post by kk1 » Mon Jul 03, 2006 12:24 pm

BlackArtistik wrote:
FuguTabetai wrote:I'll tell you what, I'm excited for TT to hop back into the present arc, but it seems really interesting right now.

I'm particularly interested in seeing how Bob and Masataka (more on the White Feather side of things) develop.

We've been spending a lot of time learning about Red Feather powers, history, and background. I hope we'll see more time spent on White Feather stuff as well...

Word. Although I hope they don't do an entire volume of chapters on the White Feathers.
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Post by kujoe » Tue Jul 04, 2006 11:22 pm

BlackArtistik wrote:Speed: Bob (Now that Bob has learned to read his opponents' attacks in battle, and if he mastered this to a point where even the dragon powers would have trouble tracking him, combined with his natural strength...)
I kind of imagine him along the same lines as Bunshichi. Bob could easily turn out to be a pure brawling powerhouse with some formal training to back up his skills. (Nagi would've been heading the same direction if he didn't have his red feather blood.) Unlike Masataka and Mitsuomi, who are martial arts wrecking machines in their own right, Bob seems to be more about raw power and raw speed—more physical than anything else.

Of course, this is just my current opinion regarding this matter. I think there are actually a lot of possibilities the author can use when it comes to Bob's development—with the exception of going the red feather route that is.

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Post by kk1 » Wed Jul 05, 2006 1:55 am

kujoe wrote:
BlackArtistik wrote:Speed: Bob (Now that Bob has learned to read his opponents' attacks in battle, and if he mastered this to a point where even the dragon powers would have trouble tracking him, combined with his natural strength...)
I kind of imagine him along the same lines as Bunshichi. Bob could easily turn out to be a pure brawling powerhouse with some formal training to back up his skills. (Nagi would've been heading the same direction if he didn't have his red feather blood.) Unlike Masataka and Mitsuomi, who are martial arts wrecking machines in their own right, Bob seems to be more about raw power and raw speed—more physical than anything else.

Of course, this is just my current opinion regarding this matter. I think there are actually a lot of possibilities the author can use when it comes to Bob's development—with the exception of going the red feather route that is.
I think Bob is going to have some kind of power(though I hope he doesn't) he is half Japanese and his mom could turn out to be a red feather or something. Remember Dougen was gathering students from all over with latent powers, it's no accident two students with as poor academic skills as Nagi and Bob got accepted(remeber in Japan you have to apply to get into high school) into their school.

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Post by kujoe » Wed Jul 05, 2006 6:40 am

I doubt Bob's a red feather. Mitsuomi is quite interested in his potential. And knowing Mitsuomi, well, you know... Still, I guess even this doesn't stop Oh! Great from making this (awful) plot twist if he chose to.

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Post by Okara » Sat Aug 19, 2006 10:14 pm

Nobody1898 wrote:you have to remember tawara was a member of juukenbu in the begining
The Mitsuomi wanting to kick the crap out of Shin is probably the strongest Juken Club member.

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Post by Iromaru » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:17 am

Right now Maya is definitely the strongest Juukenbu member but it's really hard to say who was the strongest member in history. I would vote for Shin with Dragon's Eye but it's possible that present arc Mitsuomi, Bunshichi and Maya would be able to beat him.

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Post by kk1 » Sun Aug 20, 2006 3:29 am

Iromaru wrote:Right now Maya is definitely the strongest Juukenbu member but it's really hard to say who was the strongest member in history. I would vote for Shin with Dragon's Eye but it's possible that present arc Mitsuomi, Bunshichi and Maya would be able to beat him.
I'd like to have seen Dragon Fist Nagi vs Shin.

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Post by Iromaru » Sun Aug 20, 2006 6:16 am

That could really be interesting but I don't think that Nagi would be able to beat Shin. He isn't so strong jet, but this can change in the future.

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Post by kujoe » Sun Aug 20, 2006 11:34 pm

A fully beserked Shin would actually make short work of Mitsuomi and Bunshichi. That is, going by the last chapter of the past arc. Besides, I'm sure Shin with his Dragon's Eye can easily go beyond Mitsuomi's 3 minute limit.

The one thing interesting in a Dragon's Fist vs. Dragon's Eye fight is that both have what it takes to totally defeat the other. If you don't take into account outside factors, the whole thing is practically 50-50. It'll probably depend on the user or who's more lucky in the end.

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Post by Iromaru » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:48 am

I would say that Dragon's Eye is a bit stronger than Dragon's Fist (and all other Red Feather's powers) and if the both fighters were the same level D E would have advantage, but Nagi isn't as strong as Shin was (he is still a lot weaker than Mitsuomi, Maya and Bunshichi) so I doubt he would stand a chance.

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Post by miyagiCE » Mon Aug 21, 2006 10:12 am

I have no idea who would be the strongest member, I really don't. All I can do is hope for my favourite character, which is undoubtly Masataka (:D), to strike from the shadows and teach all those super move users a good lesson in simple combat. Other than that... hmmm, Bob seems to be a good candidate as well, but as I think he will move over to Mitsuomi sooner or later he drops out. If you count in ex-members (are they really ex-members), I would have to say Bunshichi- simply because he's so damn laid back.
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