Fu Chi'en Topic

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

Moderator: FuguTabetai

Post Reply
Gongjin
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:32 pm

Fu Chi'en Topic

Post by Gongjin » Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:44 pm

Haha, not really a guy that anyone seems to talk about, with good reason. He's more or less an extremely arrogant and rather immoral triad boss who doesn't do much in the story besides act as a plot device to bring out the Ryuugan.

Still, I find him to be a little interesting, at least. I like the way his character is drawn, and his fighting style is pretty awesome looking I say..looks like a northern style of Chinese kung fu..northern style simply because he kicks a lot. Mm, though maybe some eagle's claw or something mixed in too. Add in the lightning effects (his control over his element is so much better than Ryuzaki's) and it was fun to watch him fight..er, at least before Shin ripped his hands off. I didn't like zombie Fu much, all he does is slash and electrocute, no real style anymore.

It's a bit hard to gauge his strength since the only person he thought before he died was Ryuugan Shin, and a beserking Shin is just plain overwhelming. He seemed very, very powerful though; he took out Maya incredibly quick, and Douken, as Pei commented, did bother to bring him all the way over from Taiwan--and I doubt it was for his personality.

Any comments?

User avatar
Agent_Wax
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:24 am

Post by Agent_Wax » Wed Oct 06, 2004 10:06 pm

Well, Oh! Great already said that Fu's Tiger Kung Fu is a real style, but practically most major Kung Fu styles have their own Tiger Style drills.

solidis1
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:02 pm

Post by solidis1 » Sat Oct 09, 2004 2:00 am

You said that he was to bring out the Ryuugen Shin. I'm guessing you mean his berserker form.
Anyway, help me if I'm wrong. The only reason this was done, was to start a chain reaction to create Mitsuomi as the "True Warrior", (which only failed since he got that heart problem), right?
What was the reason for Dougen doing this? (Forgot)

Gongjin
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:32 pm

Post by Gongjin » Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:46 am

Yeah, it seems that it was done only to further the development of Mitsuomi into the "True Warrior." Basically, to become that, Mitsuomi needed to defeat a monster; makes sense, can't have a hero without a villain. And Dougen picked Natsume Shin to be that monster.

solidis1
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:02 pm

Post by solidis1 » Sat Oct 09, 2004 3:54 pm

You say picked, so by that could we say that Dougen could have picked
(yea, I know) Natsume Maya? Or was there something else to that decision.

User avatar
FuguTabetai
Shifu
Shifu
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:45 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by FuguTabetai » Sat Oct 09, 2004 5:12 pm

I think Dougen could have picked someone else, but Natsume Shin made a very convenient choice - predisposed to become monster-like, able to put Mitsuomi in a position where he had to fight.

User avatar
Shinpachi
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 40
Joined: Thu May 27, 2004 3:52 pm

Post by Shinpachi » Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:00 am

I always figured it was because the Ryuugan was the most overwhelming dragon's gate ability, I mean, being able to see the future makes for a healthy advantage, and only the 'true warrior' would be able to overcome it. I figured all the others had their advantages and disadvantages, but the only disadvantage of the ryuugan seemed to be insanity.

Gongjin
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Oct 06, 2004 8:32 pm

Post by Gongjin » Sun Oct 10, 2004 12:35 am

It always seemed like the Ryuugan meant more than just being able to see the future and past, though.

It completely dispersed Fu Chi'en's electric double palm strike, and Fu only had to twitch his fingers to totally incapacitate Maya. Now, Shin was more powerful than Maya will ever be, but still, Fu's lightning should have done SOMETHING. I doubt that normal Shin would have been able to stand up to Fu the way that he did as a berserking Ryuugan user. Also, the Ryuugan seemed to seriously increase Shin's speed and strength; esp. strength. Once again, I don't think unactivated Shin could have simply ripped off Fu's hands like that (while that was great for shock value..I honestly never thought it made any sense..I was just kinda like..how the f did he do THAT?)

User avatar
MrProphet
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by MrProphet » Sun Oct 10, 2004 2:29 am

The idea of the Dragon Eye is that he user "synchronizes" himself or herself with the rest of the world around him/her.

So, not only does he know what's going on every single second, but he can see patterns that enable him to decipher and understand the past and the possible future.

That's the main point: the ability to see patterns. So, Dragon Eye enables Shin to "see" through Fu Chi'en's ability, understand how it works and neutralize it.

Think of Ryuugan as a giant difference engine in your head, like a supercomputer that overanalyzes everything in a millisecond and gives it's user the correct answer.

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Mon Oct 11, 2004 12:09 am

It's not so difficult to understand, that with a description like that, how anyone with the Dragon's Eye would be in danger of possibly losing his or her mind. To cope with such a power can sometimes be quite something indeed to the point that it can drive some people to extreme preventive measures such as imprisoning Shin after he touched Reiki. The risks and returns are just are too high on both ends. Then gain, I guess it depends on the user.

As for Fu'Chien, I agree with Gongjin. The normal Fu'Chien was certainly more fun to watch when he was fighting than the zombie one. He just had more style in my opinion, and it would've been great to see Masataka go one on one against him since both use variations of their respective Chinese fighting style.

solidis1
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:02 pm

Post by solidis1 » Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:32 pm

I thought Masataka uses Mental Universe or something? What Chinese art does this come from kujoe? And what are the names of Fu and Masa's styles?

User avatar
FuguTabetai
Shifu
Shifu
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:45 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by FuguTabetai » Fri Oct 15, 2004 1:36 pm

solidis1 wrote:I thought Masataka uses Mental Universe or something?
My translation of that is extremely suspect.

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Fri Oct 15, 2004 6:43 pm

solidis1 wrote:I thought Masataka uses Mental Universe or something? What Chinese art does this come from kujoe? And what are the names of Fu and Masa's styles?
I got my info from the Ultra Jump Special interview. (or from my memory of it... :wink: ) You can check it out, since I could've gotten the facts wrong. But from what I understand, Masataka's fighting style--translated by Fugu as "Mental Universe"--is basically a Chinese style or it originated from China. Now, I don't know if it's real or not, but I assume it's pretty much fictional, perhaps with at least some actual basis in real life that have been exagerrated for the sake of the manga.

And as Agent_Wax says, Fu' fighting style is Tiger kung fu.

solidis1
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:02 pm

Post by solidis1 » Fri Oct 15, 2004 9:03 pm

Mental universe sounds pretty cool though. Like you said though, it might be derived from from some form of martial art. Like those monks do some crazy stuff. I don't know about punching through someone to get to someone else but you know what I mean.

chumsy
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 3:10 am

Post by chumsy » Sun Oct 17, 2004 1:49 pm

i dont like the fact that when shin uses his dragon eye he becomes a god and unbeatable. it makes no sense how this teenager beats fu chien like he was nothing. but what can you do. seems to me like the natsume family powers are way more powerful than any other. shouldnt they be the leader of the flying pheonix sigh. the balance of powers are how should i say, unbalanced.

solidis1
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:02 pm

Post by solidis1 » Sun Oct 17, 2004 4:45 pm

Exactly. I don't get how Fu' Chien, with his fighting experience is able to lose to Shin. Just because of the dragon's eye, he tears his hands off?
You'd think that Shin would have to train hard to get to be on Fu's level but we don't see him train at all.

Just like Nagi in the Bowling alley. Mitsuomi has a few more years of experience but he trains really hard. Nagi trains a bit then beats the crap out of him, yea I realize Mits wasn't trying but still.

User avatar
moyism
Senpai
Senpai
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 4:47 am
Location: NJ
Contact:

Post by moyism » Sun Oct 17, 2004 6:18 pm

well you do have to realize we don't exactly know what training people like Shin and Nagi have undergone. I would think Shin would have more "traditional" training compared to Nagi and probably similar to Fu. Nagi on the other hand, probably has good old street fighitng much like Tawara. 8)

I'll admit having the Dragon Eye is pretty frickin' powerful but I just don't see it as making Shin become "an god and unbeatable." With Fu Chi'en, all the experience and whatnot got thrown out of the door simply because of Shin's ability to see all possible outcomes. In a sense, it's like fighting against yourself since Shin would know all the possible moves/techniques you would do at any given moment. Also, you can be the best damn fighter in the world but that doesn't help much if you're cocky and overconfident. Fu Chi'en's overconfidence was definitely a reason why Shin was able to kick his ass; he underestimated Shin period.

Anyway, there's definite leeway on just how powerful 8th dragon gate abilities are, but I personally see it as just another ability that can be beaten. Albeit, it'll be a load amount of training and cleverness but it can be done. For example, Makiko was able to stop Nagi's Dragon fist with no problem (though she did lose her other arm). So it's do-able... you just have to be ready to accept the consequences. :shock:

solidis1
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:02 pm

Post by solidis1 » Mon Oct 18, 2004 5:41 pm

"Accept the consequences" is right. If Makiko would have hesitated her son would have been blown apart.

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Mon Oct 18, 2004 6:17 pm

chumsy wrote:i dont like the fact that when shin uses his dragon eye he becomes a god and unbeatable. it makes no sense how this teenager beats fu chien like he was nothing. but what can you do. seems to me like the natsume family powers are way more powerful than any other. shouldnt they be the leader of the flying pheonix sigh. the balance of powers are how should i say, unbalanced.
Actually, it makes less sense to me how a character like Bunshichi can simply beat the hell out of anyone. Oh! Great simply explains it as, "Well, there are just some people like that..." which is really not enough. We just assume that Bunshichi has the raw talent and the fighting experience to handle all those feats, and that's all. Not that I'm really complaining, of course. Heh. :cool:

We've seen Shin suffer major losses too. Nagi and Bob definitely did as well. Hell, even Maya went through such a stage of "weakness" at one point. Remember burrowowl's joke about Masataka not having weaknesses? In fact, it's characters like Bunshichi and Masataka who have yet to make their first major loss in the manga. Then again, not of all of their victories were really easy wins either.

User avatar
MrProphet
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by MrProphet » Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:19 pm

Maybe Tawara already went through that phase during his "Double Impact" stint, who knows...

Tawara is the oldest of the bunch, he has to be pretty experienced. We don't really know what he was doing before we met him and Shin.

chumsy
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 55
Joined: Mon May 31, 2004 3:10 am

Post by chumsy » Tue Oct 19, 2004 1:20 am

actually tawara did lose well at least we was knocked out when shin went crazy right b4 his death he knocked out mitsuomi and tawara. and masataka well he supposedly loses to his brother but it was never shown.

solidis1
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Mar 24, 2004 4:02 pm

Post by solidis1 » Tue Oct 19, 2004 3:32 pm

It doesn't matter that Bunchishi is so strong because he is one of the minor characters. He really doesn't get involved if you think about it. Sure, he was able to knock Fu back with one punch but Masataka was the one that actually beat Fu. Bunchishi won't play a much bigger role than this in the future. He's already done what he can.

Yeah it would be weird if he started taking on F or something then his strength would need to be explained further but since he is basically flawless in fighting their isn't much room for growth. No it isn't weird that he's so strong, I thought it was weird that Oh Great showed Nagi being able to pound on Mitsuomi so early on in the manga.

Now that Nagi's powered up I don't think Mitsuomi will much of a match for him. I'll bet Mitsuomi is no longer the main villain like he was for so long.

User avatar
moyism
Senpai
Senpai
Posts: 440
Joined: Sun Jan 04, 2004 4:47 am
Location: NJ
Contact:

Post by moyism » Tue Oct 19, 2004 5:57 pm

solidis1 wrote:It doesn't matter that Bunchishi is so strong because he is one of the minor characters. He really doesn't get involved if you think about it. Sure, he was able to knock Fu back with one punch but Masataka was the one that actually beat Fu. Bunchishi won't play a much bigger role than this in the future. He's already done what he can.
I disagree. I think Bunchishi will still play a big role in later future events in TT, especially when the tournament starts.
Yeah it would be weird if he started taking on F or something then his strength would need to be explained further but since he is basically flawless in fighting their isn't much room for growth. No it isn't weird that he's so strong, I thought it was weird that Oh Great showed Nagi being able to pound on Mitsuomi so early on in the manga.
I don't necessarily think Bunchishi's strength would need to be explained if he started to take on F or whatnot. We've already seen his abilities against Shin and Zombie Fu, so it's not readers can't figure out his strength as is. I can see Bunchisihi take on F, maybe not directly but definitely have a part in the greater plot. Come on, if he wasn't there for Masataka there was no way Masataka was going to beat Zombie Fu.
Now that Nagi's powered up I don't think Mitsuomi will much of a match for him. I'll bet Mitsuomi is no longer the main villain like he was for so long.
yea, I think for awhile now most of us assumed that Mitsuomi became the non-main villian after the introduction of Nagi's Dad and F. It'll be interesting to see if Maya's and Mitsuomi's groups put up a united front against F and whatever crazy plans Nagi's Dad might have. Might be a little cliched, but just saying... :D

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:25 pm

Well, what I'm also trying to say is, when was the last time you saw Bunshichi losing as the main showcase in one manga volume? You know, the kind that would match the scale of Nagi's loss against Ishiyumi or Mataza's loss against Nagi? (Oh my god! That would be blasphemy! :P )

His strength was already more or less explained--as in natural, raw talent or just assume that it was honned through experience--but personally, the former is almost treading the same line as being born with special abilities or powers. As in, "it's there."

My favorite fight is Bunshichi vs. Shin. Now, that was Bunshichi in all his glory--using everything he had, and making every punch count. Plus, a little bit of luck also helped him on that one too.

Ironically, the fact that his strength isn't altogether explained is actually part the appeal of his character, and moreover his appeal also serves as a means of balancing the cast of the story. Whine-free, comical and yet wise--one of the "older guys" as Nagi and Bob would've put it.

Post Reply