Chapter 79

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Post by MrProphet » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:36 am

Evil_Genius released their own version of chapter 79.

Although their editing job is quite fine, and if I might say, a bit superior to Fugu's (KiShodar, we miss you!), their translation is quite subpar.

They don't translate a lot of the special terms, leaving them as romaji, AND they provide almost no comments for special term (except for Enma, which Fugu directly translated as "Ruler of Hell").

So, I am still going with Fugu's version I guess. Even though I like E_G's edit job a lot.

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Post by FuguTabetai » Thu Jan 06, 2005 5:08 pm

MrProphet wrote: So, I am still going with Fugu's version I guess. Even though I like E_G's edit job a lot.
yeah, I don't edit anything. I just let a program do that. I have much more fun doing the translation. :) Anyway, it is nice that Evil Genius does their thing, because I don't want to distribute scans or anything; since DC licensed it, I'm hoping they can market TJTG to a larger audience.

I'm sure many fans appreciate still being able to get scans from somewhere though.

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Post by HappyStealer » Thu Jan 06, 2005 8:29 pm

Inue's probably gonna control nagi and let him rape Shizduru. thats what I think inue meant.

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Post by Evanidus » Thu Jan 06, 2005 11:32 pm

Heh, personally I hate it when "moves" are translated. Although I'll agree that some extras notes on them wouldn't have hurt.

But since I don't mind myself, I didn't really seek to add them (beside those the translator put). Oh well ;)

Note: that was only my fifth edit ever. Oro left for a month due to some issues so I had to edit tt79 myself using what seems to be the same raws. Couldn't get own scans this time around.

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 12:43 am

HappyStealer wrote:Inue's probably gonna control nagi and let him rape Shizduru. thats what I think inue meant.
I know this is Oh! Great but I really don't see why everyone is expecting Nagi to rape Shizuru, the only way it would happen is if Inue forced him and since she can only control of 1 person at a time I don't think Shizuru is going to sit there and take it. Now that I have reread it, it seems implied that Nagi is the one who crippled her brother, so on second thought, once she figures it out, Shizuru will have a very good reason to want to kick his ass even though he's helping her now.

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Jan 07, 2005 2:53 am

Evanidus wrote:Heh, personally I hate it when "moves" are translated. Although I'll agree that some extras notes on them wouldn't have hurt.

But since I don't mind myself, I didn't really seek to add them (beside those the translator put). Oh well ;)

Note: that was only my fifth edit ever. Oro left for a month due to some issues so I had to edit tt79 myself using what seems to be the same raws. Couldn't get own scans this time around.
Hi! 8)

Like I said, I love your editing skills.

As for tranlation, the core is fine, but I was mighty confused when reading something like: "Tell him what you last saw was 'Maaisenjyou Eirokukukyaku' of Shizuru, the second daughter of Kamura family". Or when Ishiyumi says: "My suiryuu is crying", I couldn't figure out he was talking about his water dragon until I saw a little comment below. 8)

I mean, leaving them is romaji is OK, but some comments would be nice, since it's a bit confusing what is what. And also, I guess I am just more used to Fugu's style. 8)

PS I am having the same problem with the people translating Bleach manga. Agh!!!! I can get "Ban Kai", but the rest is just exasperating! 8)

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Post by Agent_Wax » Fri Jan 07, 2005 3:37 am

Now that I have reread it, it seems implied that Nagi is the one who crippled her brother, so on second thought, once she figures it out, Shizuru will have a very good reason to want to kick his ass even though he's helping her now.
Huh?

Shidzuru was much younger when her brother got crippled.
Way I see it is that her brother's Dragon Leg got stolen by Tetsuhito who then crippled him. Shidzuru's been bent on revenge ever since.

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:46 am

Agent_Wax wrote:
Now that I have reread it, it seems implied that Nagi is the one who crippled her brother, so on second thought, once she figures it out, Shizuru will have a very good reason to want to kick his ass even though he's helping her now.
Huh?

Shidzuru was much younger when her brother got crippled.
Way I see it is that her brother's Dragon Leg got stolen by Tetsuhito who then crippled him. Shidzuru's been bent on revenge ever since.
Where do you get that she was "much younger" ? Inue thanks her for helpinhg them "raise another dragon" and she didn't even get crippled like her brother doing it, they've obviously been bringing "meat" to Nagi for a while now. If it had been Tetsuhito wouldn't that have been 8 years ago and she would have looked like a little girl in that flashback panel not exactly the same.

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Post by HappyStealer » Fri Jan 07, 2005 1:55 pm

I don't know, even if Nagi did something to her bro, shizduru seems smart enough to figure out that it was not his fault. She obviously knows Inue is a bitch and controlling nagi and she should be able to link that with Kago after that. So in the end, she'll still be after Kago. Its highly doubtful she'll be trying to kick nagi's ass, she'll probably, at the very least, just be a lil mad at him. And on my first post, I meant INue will probably control nagi and force him to rape her if that does happpen. LOL I just realized in the last scene with Mawari and Aya, Mawari couldn't open the bag of potato chips and it seems like she stabbed it. LOL

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Post by Agent_Wax » Fri Jan 07, 2005 10:28 pm

Where do you get that she was "much younger" ?
Just look at the difference between her appearance then and now. OK, maybe not "much younger", but a couple years from the look of it.

Inue thanks her for helpinhg them "raise another dragon" and she didn't even get crippled like her brother doing it, they've obviously been bringing "meat" to Nagi for a while now. If it had been Tetsuhito wouldn't that have been 8 years ago and she would have looked like a little girl in that flashback panel not exactly the same.
There's no reason it had to happen 8 years ago. And they've only been holding Nagi for a week or 2.

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Post by TW_J » Fri Jan 07, 2005 11:23 pm

i agree nagi was only held for 2 weeks no way that it could happen 8 years ago unless it was kago himself

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Post by HappyStealer » Sat Jan 08, 2005 12:58 am

Yea I'd assume that too. Cause since th e election tournament is about to begin, which I think when the last time ti was mentioned was only couple months until it started or maybe it was a month. I forgot so yea, it couldn't have been 8 years. He's probably been held captive for at least 2 weeks. Oh yea nice pic of aya agent wax in ur avatar. SHe looks real nice in that pic. ^^

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Post by kk1 » Sat Jan 08, 2005 4:59 am

Agent_Wax wrote:
Where do you get that she was "much younger" ?
Just look at the difference between her appearance then and now. OK, maybe not "much younger", but a couple years from the look of it.

Inue thanks her for helpinhg them "raise another dragon" and she didn't even get crippled like her brother doing it, they've obviously been bringing "meat" to Nagi for a while now. If it had been Tetsuhito wouldn't that have been 8 years ago and she would have looked like a little girl in that flashback panel not exactly the same.
There's no reason it had to happen 8 years ago. And they've only been holding Nagi for a week or 2.
She looks the same to me in the pic.

And the reason I'm saying it was Nagi who crippled her brother OR it had to be 8 years ago is because that's the last time Kago brought in people to awaken Dragons in someone (Tetsuhito). Even the monks (or whatever) talking to Inue say they're worried it will turn out like last time with Nagi's mom (which was 8 years ago).

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Post by jaguar » Sat Jan 08, 2005 10:44 am

That mind control girl is boring. It would be great if that tongue can only control members of the feather families, or people with dragons, but since Asshat is none of the above, he goes in and molests her into submission! Go Asshat! BTW, the new girl is hot, I hope we see her again. Madoka was funny, too, hehe. Opening chips with swords and demanding attention from clueless Masataka.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:11 pm

She looks the same to me in the pic.
Ah, young glasshoppah... it is time for you to learn tha sercret of... the 8 Monkeys Bra Piercing Shaolin Eagle Eye Technick! Forget for moment that I am blind as diabetic bat. :D This secret skill, handed down from mastah to deeesciple will allow you to stare at a woman's boobies without feeling tired, and notice subtle changes in tha size, shape, and movement of boobies, even under clothing! 8) After you haff mastered this skill, you can then walk across tha desert, kicking arse and look at boobies for tha rest of your life...


Crap. I need to stop watching Godannar.


And the reason I'm saying it was Nagi who crippled her brother OR it had to be 8 years ago is because that's the last time Kago brought in people to awaken Dragons in someone (Tetsuhito). Even the monks (or whatever) talking to Inue say they're worried it will turn out like last time with Nagi's mom (which was 8 years ago).
It's certainly possible, but I doubt that Kago did nothing else between then and now. And 2 years would coincide with Mitsuomi's coup, where F forcibly ousted the old guard. It would be likely they put up some fight, and would also be likely that Tetsuhito stole several dragons in the battles.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Sun Jan 09, 2005 9:23 pm

jaguar wrote:That mind control girl is boring. It would be great if that tongue can only control members of the feather families, or people with dragons, but since Asshat is none of the above, he goes in and molests her into submission! Go Asshat! BTW, the new girl is hot, I hope we see her again. Madoka was funny, too, hehe. Opening chips with swords and demanding attention from clueless Masataka.
Yeah, I really liked the Madoka-Masa scene as well. Charming and cute. And while I don't specifically dislike Inue (who, by the way, seems likely to be the 6th F member, the hooded one), she does strike me as exceptionally cruel, more so than Souhaku and Tetsuhito, and on par with Tsumuji. Souhaku & Tetsuhito strike me as merely cold and unempathic, willing to do ruthless things in the pursuit of their goals, but Inue seems to take delight in torturing others...

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Post by pv82 » Sun Jan 09, 2005 11:04 pm

Agent_Wax wrote: Inue (who, by the way, seems likely to be the 6th F member, the hooded one),
I was thinking that at the begining but, seeing as the F members have been comprised the 5 White Feather Founding Families. By process of elimination, that would make the last member part of the Wani clan. It would be strange is the Wani's didn't have kids and the 6th member was part of the lower families, but then again who said Oh Great had to follow any rules?

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Post by HappyStealer » Mon Jan 10, 2005 3:31 am

yea I get that feeling too that Inue is the 6th F member. Her ability seems extra unique that it coincides with a feather family member. BUt personally I don't care about ishiyumi anymore, he's had his shot in the spotlight. I'd like to know more about Tesuhito and what his abilties are and Kago's too, especially Kago. Hope Makiko is in the next chapter. They just gotta show her constantly now because she is a MILF if I was a manga character. LOL. My gf is gonna kill me........

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Post by Agent_Wax » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:17 am

I was thinking that at the begining but, seeing as the F members have been comprised the 5 White Feather Founding Families. By process of elimination, that would make the last member part of the Wani clan. It would be strange is the Wani's didn't have kids and the 6th member was part of the lower families, but then again who said Oh Great had to follow any rules?
You're right. I forgot about Wani. :oops:

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Post by pv82 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:59 am

HappyStealer wrote:BUt personally I don't care about ishiyumi anymore, he's had his shot in the spotlight.
I was expecting more from the guy. Since he made the mistake of being cocky and lost his dragon, he does seem pretty lame now. It would have been nice to see another battle with Nagi at full strength and Ishiyumi too.

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Post by kk1 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:04 pm

pv82 wrote:
HappyStealer wrote:BUt personally I don't care about ishiyumi anymore, he's had his shot in the spotlight.
I was expecting more from the guy. Since he made the mistake of being cocky and lost his dragon, he does seem pretty lame now. It would have been nice to see another battle with Nagi at full strength and Ishiyumi too.
He does seem like a joke now doesn't he? Especially after a little girl like Madoka comes at Bob with those huge knives and this guy shows up with....oooh...darts! Even Asshat could probably beat him now, well at least his girls could. But imagine him fighting Masataka it would be over in 2 seconds.

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Post by FuguTabetai » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:08 pm

kk1 wrote: and this guy shows up with....oooh...darts!
Well, 1d4 damage per dart, 10-20 darts...

Anyway, Ishiyumi has always been a ranged-weapon user. Rember when he was first introduced? He was sporting a sling.

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Post by kk1 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:24 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:
kk1 wrote: and this guy shows up with....oooh...darts!
Well, 1d4 damage per dart, 10-20 darts...

Anyway, Ishiyumi has always been a ranged-weapon user. Rember when he was first introduced? He was sporting a sling.
Yeah but as everyone else is getting stronger every issue he's gotten weaker, it will be interesting to see who he matches up against in the tournement...if he's still around

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Post by MrProphet » Mon Jan 10, 2005 1:39 pm

He hasn't gotten weaker, he just lost his water dragon.

And having no dragon isn't exactly a weakness. You'd never think of calling someone like Maya or Bunshichi weak, right?

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Post by pv82 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:03 pm

MrProphet wrote:He hasn't gotten weaker, he just lost his water dragon.

And having no dragon isn't exactly a weakness. You'd never think of calling someone like Maya or Bunshichi weak, right?
Its hard to say. Maya is pretty strong but when faced with strong Ki users(Minus Ryuzuki) , she hasn't prefromed that well. She lost to Fu and Isuzu has left her with one less arm. Granted 1) she was't as strong then as she is now and 2) She could get cured from what Izusu did to her and she did win. As far a Bunshichi , I hate to say anything bad cause I think he's great but Shin was beating the Crap out of him when Shin used his Dragon, or the time Shin beat everyone up (including Tawara) in the Dojo where he fought the last time. At the same time he does seem to know his way around stuff (like with Fu or Nagi using the Forged Needle). Elemental & Dragon users seem to have that powering up weakness that leaves them open, like Masataka said. Yet, even he was scared about FU. So that stuff is kinda Grey area.

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Post by kk1 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 2:07 pm

MrProphet wrote:He hasn't gotten weaker, he just lost his water dragon.

And having no dragon isn't exactly a weakness. You'd never think of calling someone like Maya or Bunshichi weak, right?
No, but he couldn't beat Aya and Nagi with his dragon, Maya and Bunshichi can, and Aya and Nagi have both gotten stronger since then. So the only guy he could beat was "Howard Stern" from the enforcement group (and that was with his dragon)who Aya almost killed way back at the bowling alley, so yeah I'm going to call him weak.

edit Oh and he beat Kabuto, who had just had his ass kicked by Nagi and was more of a tactician than a fighter anyway.

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Post by MrProphet » Mon Jan 10, 2005 4:45 pm

Huh? What?

Ishiyumi pretty much kicked the crap out of Nagi, even while being understrenght. I don't recall any other fights he was in.

Tawara too beat Shin in their fight, all the while bleeding almost to death after Reiki attack, And not to mention him disposing of undead Fu without even looking at him.

You can't seriously compare Maya 3 years ago with Maya now. Two totally different people.

And lets not even mention Takayanagi Mitsuomi, who single-handedly destroyed the whole opposing team at the Tournament Finals.

So, lets not be calling any of the non-dragon people weak.

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Post by EliteF22 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 5:40 pm

I've been thinking recently that F in Souhaku's F group may not stand for feather. It may have a dual meaning of feather and food. Ishiyumi, Mataza, and Kabuto(in a ways) have already been fed to Souichirou. Thus, if the current pattern continues Tetsuhito and Inue will probably end up getting their dragons eaten too. From the point in the story where we are now, it doesn't seem that F was ever meant to fight in the election tournament. Madoka is obviously too young and Kabuto and Tetsuhito look to be too old to participate. That would have only left Mataza, Ishiyumi and possibly Inue if she qualified. Plus, they would have to also attend the school to participate in the election tournament and only Ishiyumi was sent to the school. F just seems to be nothing but feed for Souichirou's dragon.

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Post by MrProphet » Mon Jan 10, 2005 6:20 pm

That's a very good observation.

However, does Kabuto have a dragon? Or Madoka, for that matter...

Inue has Dragon Roar, Tetsuhito has Dragon Palm and Mataza has Dragon Claw. Tessen has his water dragon, but it's not a major ability.

Madoka and Katsumi never seem to have exibited any Red Feather qualities, they are purely White.

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Post by pv82 » Mon Jan 10, 2005 8:30 pm

MrProphet wrote:Huh? What?

Ishiyumi pretty much kicked the crap out of Nagi, even while being understrenght. I don't recall any other fights he was in.

Tawara too beat Shin in their fight, all the while bleeding almost to death after Reiki attack, And not to mention him disposing of undead Fu without even looking at him.

You can't seriously compare Maya 3 years ago with Maya now. Two totally different people.

And lets not even mention Takayanagi Mitsuomi, who single-handedly destroyed the whole opposing team at the Tournament Finals.

So, lets not be calling any of the non-dragon people weak.
1) Yes Ishiyumi did look like he had potential, but he made a mistake (Using Restritor) and lost his dragon. I am probably going to end up eating my own words, but I can't imagine a Dragon user (or a heavy weapon User) lose to some darts :?

2) Tawara won the Fight, but that was once Shin was no longer using his Dragon, Shin wasn't even really fighting back. Shin was too busy trying to get his blade back. Like I said, Tawara seems to be really good about thinking on his feet, and analyzing weakness. Thats what helps him, also the fight with FU, well when you think about it everyone would have been fried had Masataka exploited Fu weakness.

3) I agree, she is stronger, but not THAT strong. If she was that strong she wouldn't need support (Nagi) or get amazed at Nagi's progress in the 1st volumes.

4) I agree, if anyone could probably hold thier own against Dragon & Elemental Users, it would be Mits and Bun. Yet, in that tournament it doesn't seem like he fought against any Dragon & Elemental Users. Not to mention Nagi Decked him in the first confronation, when Nagi was weaker. A guy like Mits should never be caught off guard, so thats not too impressive to me.

So in the end, I don;t think they are weak, but lets say you put someone Like Inue V.S. Maya or Bun. All she had to do is get Maya to chop her own head off with her own sword, or get Bun to Double Imapact himself to Death. So its hard to say who would win in a situation like that.

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Post by MrProphet » Mon Jan 10, 2005 9:43 pm

I am pretty sure there is a weakness in Inue's mastery of her power we just don't know yet.

First of all, all dragon powers come at a price for their users.

Second of all, even if a power user is at full potential, he is still vulnerable. For examle, lets take Shin. His power is amazing: he can potentially know everything that is going on or can possibly happen around him. No move his oponent makes or is contemplating making is hidden from the Dragon Eye. But is Shin still vulnerable? You betcha.

If Dragon Gate users were unlimited in their mastery, they would be absolutely invinsible. Which, of course, was never the case. So, I am sure either Dragon Roar has it's limits or Inue's mastery of it or herself has its limits, same as it did for Shin.

Also, as a note. I don't think Inue is the last member of "F". First of all, she is nothing like the rest of the White Feather scions. Second, her powers are very reminiscent of Red Feather families, specifically Kago clan's. And lastly, I am pretty sure Oh!Great wouldn't miss an opportunity to intruduce the last three Flying Phoenix General-Gods, Wani, Shoujou and Kabane, with Wani being the prime suspect for the last member.

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Post by kk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:14 am

MrProphet wrote:Huh? What?

Ishiyumi pretty much kicked the crap out of Nagi, even while being understrenght. I don't recall any other fights he was in.

Tawara too beat Shin in their fight, all the while bleeding almost to death after Reiki attack, And not to mention him disposing of undead Fu without even looking at him.

You can't seriously compare Maya 3 years ago with Maya now. Two totally different people.

And lets not even mention Takayanagi Mitsuomi, who single-handedly destroyed the whole opposing team at the Tournament Finals.

So, lets not be calling any of the non-dragon people weak.
Uhm I didn't I was only calling Ishiyumi weak(though after rereading the chapter he did say he was holding back in the fight and had those limiters in, I still think he was just cocky because he knew he could rely on his water bullets and now he can't). Though let's face it a Dragon's gate user is almost unbeatable. Yeah Tawara beat Shin, but I somehow get the feeling he let him, since Shin beat the crap out of the entire school (including Mistuomi and Tawara even after letting Mitsuomi beat the hell out of him)using the Dragon's eye. Remember Masataka even being amazed after watching Aya fight zombie Fu remebering how he told Bob magic fighting techniques all are easily predictable. As had been mentioned numerous times a Dragon's users biggest fight is with themself, or else they'll be consumed by the Dragon or it's energy like Nagi almost did, or like Shin let his power make him go crazy, Nagi's mom lost her eye, Nagi's dad just lost the tips of his fingers.

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Post by kk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:40 am

[quote="MrProphet"]

, Tetsuhito has Dragon Palm

quote]

Tetsuhito has the Dragon Fist like Nagi, he used 2 powers the palm and another one, meaning he used the fist to take someone else's dragon. Kurei mentions this after the fight with Fu.

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Post by kk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:08 am

MrProphet wrote:
Also, as a note. I don't think Inue is the last member of "F". First of all, she is nothing like the rest of the White Feather scions. Second, her powers are very reminiscent of Red Feather families, specifically Kago clan's. And lastly, I am pretty sure Oh!Great wouldn't miss an opportunity to intruduce the last three Flying Phoenix General-Gods, Wani, Shoujou and Kabane, with Wani being the prime suspect for the last member.
It is Wani it's the only white feather family without a corresponding "F" member yet, and since Inue's family name is Shindayuu it's obviously not her also since she's probably from a red feather family too. In looking at the UJ special again the most interesting unknown character hinted at so far to me is the previous leader of the Kago clan, where's Nagi's grandpa, or grandma?

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Post by Agent_Wax » Tue Jan 11, 2005 4:07 am

MrProphet wrote:I am pretty sure there is a weakness in Inue's mastery of her power we just don't know yet.

First of all, all dragon powers come at a price for their users.

Second of all, even if a power user is at full potential, he is still vulnerable. For examle, lets take Shin. His power is amazing: he can potentially know everything that is going on or can possibly happen around him. No move his oponent makes or is contemplating making is hidden from the Dragon Eye. But is Shin still vulnerable? You betcha.

If Dragon Gate users were unlimited in their mastery, they would be absolutely invinsible. Which, of course, was never the case. So, I am sure either Dragon Roar has it's limits or Inue's mastery of it or herself has its limits, same as it did for Shin.

Also, as a note. I don't think Inue is the last member of "F". First of all, she is nothing like the rest of the White Feather scions. Second, her powers are very reminiscent of Red Feather families, specifically Kago clan's. And lastly, I am pretty sure Oh!Great wouldn't miss an opportunity to intruduce the last three Flying Phoenix General-Gods, Wani, Shoujou and Kabane, with Wani being the prime suspect for the last member.
Technically, there is no such thing as 'having no weakness', I agree. But I am just wondering: what happens if one of the Dragon Fist users eats all available dragons and assembles them into a complete Dragon in his/her own body?
Perhaps that is Souhaku's true objective?

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Post by MrProphet » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:03 am

kk1 wrote:Tetsuhito has the Dragon Fist like Nagi, he used 2 powers the palm and another one, meaning he used the fist to take someone else's dragon. Kurei mentions this after the fight with Fu.
Tetsuhito has Dragon Palm (as per Maya), he doesn't have Dragon Fist.
Agent_Wax wrote:Technically, there is no such thing as 'having no weakness', I agree. But I am just wondering: what happens if one of the Dragon Fist users eats all available dragons and assembles them into a complete Dragon in his/her own body?
Perhaps that is Souhaku's true objective?
Remember that Kago said that he is going to destroy all the demons (evil spirits) Makiko gives birth to (brings into the world).

I have a feeling he means the dragon powers (remember, at first the words dragon and demon were used interchangably). I have a feeling his idea is to combine all the dragon powers in Nagi and then kill him, thus ridding the world of the Dragon Gate users.

He probably figured that he couldn't go aroung killing them all one by one as he did 8 years ago, so he now tries another way, combining the dragons in one and then eliminating them in one fell swoop.

That would certainly correlate to his oath to kill 1500 demons, wouldn't it?

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Post by kk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:08 pm

MrProphet wrote:
kk1 wrote:Tetsuhito has the Dragon Fist like Nagi, he used 2 powers the palm and another one, meaning he used the fist to take someone else's dragon. Kurei mentions this after the fight with Fu.
Tetsuhito has Dragon Palm (as per Maya), he doesn't have Dragon Fist.
Reread Chap 75 and look at page 15, he's not destroying Fu with the Dragon Palm, Madoka even mentions she knows another person like him (Nagi) they even say it outright on page 22.

MrProphet wrote:
Agent_Wax wrote:Technically, there is no such thing as 'having no weakness', I agree. But I am just wondering: what happens if one of the Dragon Fist users eats all available dragons and assembles them into a complete Dragon in his/her own body?
Perhaps that is Souhaku's true objective?
Remember that Kago said that he is going to destroy all the demons (evil spirits) Makiko gives birth to (brings into the world).

I have a feeling he means the dragon powers (remember, at first the words dragon and demon were used interchangably). I have a feeling his idea is to combine all the dragon powers in Nagi and then kill him, thus ridding the world of the Dragon Gate users.

He probably figured that he couldn't go aroung killing them all one by one as he did 8 years ago, so he now tries another way, combining the dragons in one and then eliminating them in one fell swoop.

That would certainly correlate to his oath to kill 1500 demons, wouldn't it?
Hmm I'm not to sure of Souhaku's plans anymore, if he has Tetsuhito to eat all the other Dragons why does he even need Nagi, maybe one person isn't capable of absorbing that much power? If it wasn't for his mom Nagi would have died after eating his second one. Also he seems so preoccupied with the tournement, why do his plans focus on the tournement can't he do whatever he wants whenever he wants?
Maya says he being made to "release" all the power he has?(btw did he eat Shizuru's dragon?)
Is it like with Shin to create a resonance that will release the other people at the school's latent powers like Dougen tried to do? I still think the Takayanagis are more central to everything, creating the "true warrior" and all that.

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Post by pv82 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:22 pm

MrProphet wrote:I am pretty sure there is a weakness in Inue's mastery of her power we just don't know yet.
That's right, the ones so far have weaknesses. Atleast the good ones. I would like to have seen the weakness of Dragons's Claw, Dragon's Spear, & Deer Kick. Dragons Pupil seemed pretty weak because it was just an illusion. For some reason, some of those Dragons seem like bastardized versions of the ones used by the 6 Red Founding Families. I imagine her dragons weakness might be something like, its useless against heavy Ki users.

I got a question concerning the Jukenbu

If Hotaru used the Dragons Plam to heal Bob and Tetsuhito used it to heal Masataka and Madoka, wouldn't that make them considerably weak now that that skill takes away from the victim.

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Post by MrProphet » Tue Jan 11, 2005 1:23 pm

kk1 wrote:Reread Chap 75 and look at page 15, he's not destroying Fu with the Dragon Palm, Madoka even mentions she knows another person like him (Nagi) they even say it outright on page 22.
Pure conjecture. You are just speculating that he has Dragon Fist because he has Dragon Palm, which is a noted Hotaru ability.

And he never uses Dragon Fist to beat Fu, he just sort of tapped his leg on the ground and Fu collapsed.
Hmm I'm not to sure of Souhaku's plans anymore, if he has Tetsuhito to eat all the other Dragons why does he even need Nagi, maybe one person isn't capable of absorbing that much power? If it wasn't for his mom Nagi would have died after eating his second one.
Again, you are speculating too much. The only dragon we know Nagi has stolen was Ishiyumi's.

It was never certain that he absorbed Mataza's Dragon Claw. And Makiko only saved him from being devoured by his OWN dragon, not Mataza's.
Also he seems so preoccupied with the tournement, why do his plans focus on the tournement can't he do whatever he wants whenever he wants?
Again, the tournament has absolutely nothing to do with Kago. The Election Tournament was an arena for Maya and Mitsuomi to settle their grievances and "F" just butted in. Like someone said above, F can't really participate, since they are not Toudou members.

You are reading too much into this stuff. I think a lot of us need to separate fan speculation from established fact, or we'll get drowned in all of this.
pv82 wrote:If Hotaru used the Dragons Plam to heal Bob and Tetsuhito used it to heal Masataka and Madoka, wouldn't that make them considerably weak now that that skill takes away from the victim.
Sure. That's why they are training right now.

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Post by kk1 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:07 pm

MrProphet wrote:
kk1 wrote:Reread Chap 75 and look at page 15, he's not destroying Fu with the Dragon Palm, Madoka even mentions she knows another person like him (Nagi) they even say it outright on page 22.
Pure conjecture. You are just speculating that he has Dragon Fist because he has Dragon Palm, which is a noted Hotaru ability.

And he never uses Dragon Fist to beat Fu, he just sort of tapped his leg on the ground and Fu collapsed.
Look again he just doesn't "collapse" he's pounded into the ground.
And how is it conjecture? I got it straight from what the characters said.
MrProphet wrote:
Hmm I'm not to sure of Souhaku's plans anymore, if he has Tetsuhito to eat all the other Dragons why does he even need Nagi, maybe one person isn't capable of absorbing that much power? If it wasn't for his mom Nagi would have died after eating his second one.
Again, you are speculating too much. The only dragon we know Nagi has stolen was Ishiyumi's.

It was never certain that he absorbed Mataza's Dragon Claw. And Makiko only saved him from being devoured by his OWN dragon, not Mataza's.
Well, it was drawn EXACTLY the same as when he ate Ishiyumi's dragon. That's why I'm not sure he ate Shizuru's dragon, it wasn't the same as the last 2. But isn't that just how the Dragon fist power works? It beats other powers by devouring them, so no matter who Nagi uses it against, if they have a Dragon it gets eaten.

MrProphet wrote:
Also he seems so preoccupied with the tournement, why do his plans focus on the tournement can't he do whatever he wants whenever he wants?
Again, the tournament has absolutely nothing to do with Kago. The Election Tournament was an arena for Maya and Mitsuomi to settle their grievances and "F" just butted in. Like someone said above, F can't really participate, since they are not Toudou members.

You are reading too much into this stuff. I think a lot of us need to separate fan speculation from established fact, or we'll get drowned in all of this.
Then why does he say to Inue? "Will I be ready for the tournement?" to which she replies "If it costs me my life I'll make it happen", he obviously wants Nagi "ready"(whatever that entails) for the tournement so he obviously wants to do something there.
I'm not trying to speculate at all, I'm taking only things revealed by the characters themselves into consideration.

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Post by Mataza-kun » Tue Jan 11, 2005 2:32 pm

kk1 wrote:
MrProphet wrote:
kk1 wrote:Reread Chap 75 and look at page 15, he's not destroying Fu with the Dragon Palm, Madoka even mentions she knows another person like him (Nagi) they even say it outright on page 22.
Pure conjecture. You are just speculating that he has Dragon Fist because he has Dragon Palm, which is a noted Hotaru ability.

And he never uses Dragon Fist to beat Fu, he just sort of tapped his leg on the ground and Fu collapsed.
Look again he just doesn't "collapse" he's pounded into the ground.
And how is it conjecture? I got it straight from what the characters said.
Well, they don't actually say he has the Dragon's Fist. They say it seems almost as if he had it, but the truth is so far unknown.

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Post by Rooster » Tue Jan 11, 2005 3:52 pm

Well, it was drawn EXACTLY the same as when he ate Ishiyumi's dragon. That's why I'm not sure he ate Shizuru's dragon, it wasn't the same as the last 2. But isn't that just how the Dragon fist power works? It beats other powers by devouring them, so no matter who Nagi uses it against, if they have a Dragon it gets eaten.
There's no doubt that Souichirou assimilated that girl's magick powers, Inue even said it out loud.
Something something Dragon Roar weakness
Hasn't it been said that Inue can control only one person at a time? That is a weakness. It would be pretty much a cheap-ass technique if it had weaknesses like "ineffective against strong ki users". Maybe someone can bulldoze through it with sheer strength, but that hardly constitutes a weakness.

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Post by FuguTabetai » Tue Jan 11, 2005 5:16 pm

Just a note: I'm not sure that Shidzuru has a dragon to be eaten. She seems like just a normal fighter to me. Her "Imperial Deer Kick" is just the name of her technique, similar to the "Forged Needle Technique", which doesn't require the user to have any special Dragon-gate abilities.

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Post by solidis1 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 6:23 pm

pv82 wrote:
If Hotaru used the Dragons Plam to heal Bob and Tetsuhito used it to heal Masataka and Madoka, wouldn't that make them considerably weak now that that skill takes away from the victim.

Mr Prophet wrote:
Sure. That's why they are training right now.
They didn't lose anything. It was stated that Maya can't or won't be healed by the Dragon palm because she would lose what she has gained from the time Isuzu broke her arm up to now. She had trained after getting it broken and the DP would strip her of that. Bob, Masataka and Madoka were healed after their respective fights therefore lost nothing.

I guess one could argue that whatever strength they gained during the fights would be lost but it wouldn't be much considering.

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Post by pv82 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 7:17 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:Just a note: I'm not sure that Shidzuru has a dragon to be eaten. She seems like just a normal fighter to me. Her "Imperial Deer Kick" is just the name of her technique, similar to the "Forged Needle Technique", which doesn't require the user to have any special Dragon-gate abilities.
Then what is Kago referring to when Shidzuru is about to kick him and her says
To jump so high with only one step ... Nice "Dragon"

Hasn't it been said that Inue can control only one person at a time?
I don't remember that being said in the manga, what I said was just speculation.

She had trained after getting it broken and the DP would strip her of that.
I am not sure about that. The way it was explained in Ch. 77 sounded like she would lose all the power she has collected within 2 years (hence why she uses the Chibi Form and Why she took 2 years to Challenge Mitsoumi). Why would she be worried about the power she collected in 1 month compared to 2 years.

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Post by EliteF22 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:13 pm

Geez, how did you get to thinking that Tetsuhito had the dragon's fist? What was said is that Souichirou and Tetsuhito are similar, by the fact that they appear to have multiple dragon gates. There is more than one way to get more than one gate. Marriages between families would probably eventually cause this to happen. Plus, if you look at Tetsuhito when he uses his other power, weird tatoos appear on his body, either that or his skin turns a black color, it looks like some pattern appears though. The Nagi's dragon fist is another way to gain dragon gates by stealing them from those who already have them. Which, seems to me why Souhaku wants his son. Get all the dragon abilities within Souichirou and I then think Souhaku will kill him. A possible reason Souhaku didn't use Makiko to do this is that Souichirou probably has the Kago ability within himself also. Thus, Souhaku can get all the gates within one body without having to give up his own. But this is all speculation, we still haven't seen Souichirou use the dragon's claw, which may mean he can't use the other special eighth gates, their dragon energy could just make his own dragon stronger.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Tue Jan 11, 2005 8:42 pm

MrProphet wrote:
kk1 wrote:Tetsuhito has the Dragon Fist like Nagi, he used 2 powers the palm and another one, meaning he used the fist to take someone else's dragon. Kurei mentions this after the fight with Fu.
Tetsuhito has Dragon Palm (as per Maya), he doesn't have Dragon Fist.
Agent_Wax wrote:Technically, there is no such thing as 'having no weakness', I agree. But I am just wondering: what happens if one of the Dragon Fist users eats all available dragons and assembles them into a complete Dragon in his/her own body?
Perhaps that is Souhaku's true objective?
Remember that Kago said that he is going to destroy all the demons (evil spirits) Makiko gives birth to (brings into the world).

I have a feeling he means the dragon powers (remember, at first the words dragon and demon were used interchangably). I have a feeling his idea is to combine all the dragon powers in Nagi and then kill him, thus ridding the world of the Dragon Gate users.

He probably figured that he couldn't go aroung killing them all one by one as he did 8 years ago, so he now tries another way, combining the dragons in one and then eliminating them in one fell swoop.

That would certainly correlate to his oath to kill 1500 demons, wouldn't it?
That's also possible, but there isn't just one inheritor of each Dragon Gate. Families can have several simultaneous Dragon Gate users, and just because one of them gets eaten doesn't mean the others lose theirs. It seems like the gates are passed on genetically, so there can still be future generations even if the current generation is stripped of their powers. The only way out would be to kill each and every person in the relevant bloodlines.

Geez, how did you get to thinking that Tetsuhito had the dragon's fist? What was said is that Souichirou and Tetsuhito are similar, by the fact that they appear to have multiple dragon gates.
I agree that's entirely conjecture at this point: that's just my hypothesis, :) based on his palm and leg techniques.


Then what is Kago referring to when Shidzuru is about to kick him and her says
Quote:
To jump so high with only one step ... Nice "Dragon"
Plus the fact that Inue specifically stated that they captured Shidzuru to be 'fed' to someone...
That would strongly imply that her family has at least a specific 'Dragon'. If not an 8th gate, then something like Ishiyumi's Water Dragon...
But this is all speculation, we still haven't seen Souichirou use the dragon's claw, which may mean he can't use the other special eighth gates, their dragon energy could just make his own dragon stronger.
Well, he can fire water bullets now, so it's more likely that he can also use the other dragon gates...

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Post by EliteF22 » Tue Jan 11, 2005 9:16 pm

I said the special eighth gates that the red feather families have. The water bullets technique utilizes the water dragon gate, which is one of the lower 7 gates. Souichirou didn't have this gate before, which is why he gained the water bullets technique. The dragon claw ability is one of the eighth gates.

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Post by HappyStealer » Wed Jan 12, 2005 12:01 am

Yea that is what I was thinking. Souchirou can steal the 7 dragon gates but not the 8th dragon gate. And the dragon's claw is an 8th dragon gate ability so I don't think that the dragon fist can steal 8th dragon gate abilites. I don't know about Kago tho. His plans are so clouded and we don't know what exactly he has planned. The speculation of him gathering all the dragon's into nagi and then killing him seems reasonable but who knows. Myabe nagi might be used as a tool for Kago later on. I hope Nagi steals Inue's dragon if she has one. She jsut pisses me off.

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Post by kk1 » Wed Jan 12, 2005 4:06 am

HappyStealer wrote:Yea that is what I was thinking. Souchirou can steal the 7 dragon gates but not the 8th dragon gate. And the dragon's claw is an 8th dragon gate ability so I don't think that the dragon fist can steal 8th dragon gate abilites. I don't know about Kago tho. His plans are so clouded and we don't know what exactly he has planned. The speculation of him gathering all the dragon's into nagi and then killing him seems reasonable but who knows. Myabe nagi might be used as a tool for Kago later on. I hope Nagi steals Inue's dragon if she has one. She jsut pisses me off.
Alright I'm really trying to understand these Dragon's and everything so I've been rereading all the references to them and it seems to me we've been misunderstanding them. EVERYONE has 7 dragon's corresponding to earth, wind, fire, water, air, metal and wood and through training in martial arts, meditation, thought or emotion you "feed" the dragon energy and once it has enough you can open its gate, and use a power. So far we've heard Maya mention her energy is "wood" the Blue belt dragon(I'm using the translations from vol 9 for the names)(from this I'm assuming this is the reason she doesn't want to waist her energy being healed, if she does she won't have enough to open her dragon's gate), Ishiyumi mentions his is "water" the Orange belt dragon and learns Nagi's is "earth" the red belt dragon. From previous fights we can see others who used these 7 dragons. Fu also used the "earth" dragon (had to be in contact with the ground and used lightning same as Nagi),Ryuzaki used fire the Yellow belt dragon (in the UJ special OH! Great says he regrets letting such a minor character have this power). There is also a "metal" silk voice dragon, is this the dragon Inue is using? And therefore not a red feather 8th gate dragon power but just a normal 7 dragon power, or does the "black"(is it black? can't tell in a B&W pic, usually 8th gates are that "glowing" black though) mark on her tongue mean it's an 8th gate?
I don't think Shizura is a red feather, nothing glowed black on her, not sure which other dragon she used though, "wind"?, "air"? It obviously wasn't "earth" or "water" since she was in the air when kicking.
The only red feather Dragon gates we've actually seen of the 6 are the Dragon's eye(Natsume, variation Dragon pupil-Enmi), Dragon's palm(Hotaru, and Tetsuhito-odd for many reasons), Dragon's claw (a Shuyouku variation of the yet to be seen Kabane family's dragon), Dragon ? (Kago, assuming the power we see him using is his red feather dragon and not one of the other 7), and Dragon fist (Nagi). Something always turns black (or dragon-like, Aya's and Mouki's eyes)when used too, since the eigth dragon is black.Red feather's power resonate when together making it easier to use. Their energy is channeled through you, but they can also devour you. You need to have the strength to endure the physical and mental burden it places on you when you open the gate.
This was how Mataza tried to beat Nagi give him so much energy that he would be devoured by it, but Nagi's mom absorbed the energy instead, which she wasn't able to control and lost her arm.
Now here's where I speculate, it says in the UJ special Nagi's mom was more powerful at using the Dragon fist than Nagi, so she was helping Nagi's dad but doing what? Gathering energy I assume to create a "resonance"(from when Makiko was in the hospital, she said a "resonance" 8 years ago started everything) which awakened the powers of youngest generation with red feather powers. I also think cutting off her arm elimanted her dragon gate(hers was in her left hand?), meaning she couldn't channel the energy to her gate anymore allowing the dragon to feed on her (notice everytime there's been a resonance of red feather powers somewhere her eye bleeds), notice when she's shown getting her arm cut off she's always holding her eye, it must have been when it was first eaten(she isn't wearing a patch), wouldn't her arm hurt more if she was already use to her eye being in pain?
Maya said Nagi is being made to release all the energy he has, Inue tells Kabuto there would be no other reason for Souhaku to bring him back than to use his powers more freely, is Kago trying to create another resonance like 8 years ago with Nagi?

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