chapter 80

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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solidis1
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Post by solidis1 »

Could someone give me the links to some of these bittorrent anime and manga sites. At least some names if not links 'cause I have looked around for them but with no direction. Needless to say I can't find many.
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Post by MrProphet »

kk1 wrote:He is manipulating Madoka's feelings to get her to do what he wants, that is seduction. He obviously also manipulated Fu'chien to do what he wanted but didn't try to develop a relationship (and before you even say it, by relationship I don't mean a sexual one) to get him to do it. That is not seduction do you see the difference?


So... they developed a relationship and he asked her to do a favour for him, and she agreed because they had this close relationship (what you called "manipulation").

If that's seduction, then I see no problem with that.
If it was simply using his power to control her than no it would not be seduction but since he got her to think she loved him (even just as a father figure) that qualifies as seduction period.
Again, asking for a favour from a person you are close to is not bad. In fact, people do it all the time.
Will it kill you to admit you were wrong or something?
I don't see myself as wrong in the argument that Souhaku did not hurt Madoka. In fact, I think it is YOU who are wrong in the assesment of Souhaku. And I think you are picking for straws, real or imaginable, to try to prove he is a bad guy. So, I think this argument is over, since you obviously won't change your mind, and you've provided me with no evidence from the manga itself to change my mind.

Any further bickering is simply futile. A waste of time, mine and yours.

PS solidis1, take a look at you PM's.
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Post by kk1 »

MrProphet wrote:
kk1 wrote:He is manipulating Madoka's feelings to get her to do what he wants, that is seduction. He obviously also manipulated Fu'chien to do what he wanted but didn't try to develop a relationship (and before you even say it, by relationship I don't mean a sexual one) to get him to do it. That is not seduction do you see the difference?


So... they developed a relationship and he asked her to do a favour for him, and she agreed because they had this close relationship (what you called "manipulation").

If that's seduction, then I see no problem with that.
If it was simply using his power to control her than no it would not be seduction but since he got her to think she loved him (even just as a father figure) that qualifies as seduction period.
Again, asking for a favour from a person you are close to is not bad. In fact, people do it all the time.

.
But they weren't close, she only thought they were, as soon as she is no longer being controlled by his magic she wants nothing to do with him. The "bad" is not the asking for a favor but the manipulation behind it. If you met a person start hanging out with them , they ask for a favor, you do it, and then afterwards they tell you to get lost they want nothing to do with you, and they only used you for the favor. You wouldn't think that person is bad? If not I think we can be good friends and so you wouldn't mind lending me $100 right?
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Post by EliteF22 »

Seeing as how this was a ch.80 discussion, anyone else wondering how the hell Ishiyumi is planning on taking his dragon back from Souichirou? That guy seems to have seriously gone off the deep end. I'm thinking out of control Souichirou with Shidzuru and maybe Kago helping beat the living daylights out Ishiyumi. I wouldn't be surprised if Ishi ends up completely broken in a hospital bed like Mataza.
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Post by dumbo63 »

Does anyone think the manga is going to end after the tournament? I hope not because there's still a lot to do.
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Post by Dominant Star »

obviously no... since this manga is not about Tournament anymore... so many crazy thing about "F"... Souhaku's plan and what'sover...

Er... not really actually... but maybe...
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Post by kk1 »

EliteF22 wrote:Seeing as how this was a ch.80 discussion, anyone else wondering how the hell Ishiyumi is planning on taking his dragon back from Souichirou? That guy seems to have seriously gone off the deep end. I'm thinking out of control Souichirou with Shidzuru and maybe Kago helping beat the living daylights out Ishiyumi. I wouldn't be surprised if Ishi ends up completely broken in a hospital bed like Mataza.
He can't, it will just be a good fight so we can all see how strong Ishiyumi really is and how strong Nagi has become. If Nagi can use all his power as easily as has been let on I think he's going to lay the smackdown on him without any help.
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Post by kk1 »

dumbo63 wrote:Does anyone think the manga is going to end after the tournament? I hope not because there's still a lot to do.
I think it can, the whole Mitsuomi Maya thing will be resolved and Sohaku's plans will all be revealed. The question is how long does it take to resolve them? Even if it ends there that could still take a good 3 volumes which is a long way off.
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Post by Agent_Wax »

EliteF22 wrote:Seeing as how this was a ch.80 discussion, anyone else wondering how the hell Ishiyumi is planning on taking his dragon back from Souichirou? That guy seems to have seriously gone off the deep end. I'm thinking out of control Souichirou with Shidzuru and maybe Kago helping beat the living daylights out Ishiyumi. I wouldn't be surprised if Ishi ends up completely broken in a hospital bed like Mataza.
In the next chapter it will be revealed that Soichirou can transfer Dragons back to their original owners.

By kissing.

With tongue.

Seriously, have you seen the sales numbers for Yaoi manga?

:lol:
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Post by dumbo63 »

I prefer Yuri. But why would he want to transfer the dragon back to him? Aren't they going to kill each other?
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Post by MrProphet »

Ogure never shied away from fanservice, although it was mostly male oriented. 8)
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Post by jacko »

If you ask me, I don't think Souhaku is evil; but he has done some very wrong stuff, and deserves to be pusished. The ends do not justify the means, and the means do not justify the ends.
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Post by Dembol »

dumbo63 wrote:Does anyone think the manga is going to end after the tournament? I hope not because there's still a lot to do.
I guess it will, but first we'll have 20 volumes covering the week before tournament and explanation of Souhaku's plans+the whole story behind every character and a couple of reminescences (and something like 5 more for the tournament itself) ;)

I jus read the translated version...great job as always. Now I can't wait for the next chapter...(or couple of them)
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Post by shouki »

Bit late, but... a little translation comment for Fugu:

On page 12, dear little Mi-chan says "kono ore... ga onna o nagarenai to demo omotte iru no ka" which should really be something like "Do you think... that I'm not capable of hitting a woman?" rather than "I... never thought I would hit a woman".


PS Probably the most famous example of "kotodama" around today is Kagome saying "osuwari" (sit) to Inuyasha.

The book "A Popular Dictionary of Shinto" has an entry on it as follows:
The spirit of a word, or the spirits residing in words. It is thought that the Otomo and Okume uji (clans) served the early Yamato court in the capacity of experts in dealing with the kotodama and spirts of songs. The idea that certain words correctly pronounced (in Buddhism, shin-gon) embody spiritual power is a notion common to several religious traditions in Japan. It extends in Shinto norito to the avoidance of words (imi-kotoba) which might exert a bad influence. The notion of kotodama has in the twentieth century been elevated to a pseudo-science by some popular writers who view the entire Japanese language as uniquely endowed with spiritial power.

This book is 10 years old, so I don't think the author has read Tenjo Tenge yet :)
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Post by kk1 »

shouki wrote:Bit late, but... a little translation comment for Fugu:

On page 12, dear little Mi-chan says "kono ore... ga onna o nagarenai to demo omotte iru no ka" which should really be something like "Do you think... that I'm not capable of hitting a woman?" rather than "I... never thought I would hit a woman".
I wondered about that since Mitsuomi already hit Maya way back at the the beginning of the flashback to 2 years ago.
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Post by FuguTabetai »

shouki wrote:Bit late, but... a little translation comment for Fugu:

On page 12, dear little Mi-chan says "kono ore... ga onna o nagarenai to demo omotte iru no ka" which should really be something like "Do you think... that I'm not capable of hitting a woman?" rather than "I... never thought I would hit a woman".
Thanks a lot - that's just a mistake that I made from translating too quickly. I've fixed my translation. Actually, I just got another translation script from Nihonjintaylor, and I'm going to look at how we translated Inue's stuff - she's pretty tough since she was mixing in some kobun. I'll update the script later tonight with any comments I might have after reading his interpretation. Who would have thought that there would actually be a bit of translator help going on here? That's just excellent.
shouki wrote: PS Probably the most famous example of "kotodama" around today is Kagome saying "osuwari" (sit) to Inuyasha.

The book "A Popular Dictionary of Shinto" has an entry on it as follows:
The spirit of a word, or the spirits residing in words. It is thought that the Otomo and Okume uji (clans) served the early Yamato court in the capacity of experts in dealing with the kotodama and spirts of songs. The idea that certain words correctly pronounced (in Buddhism, shin-gon) embody spiritual power is a notion common to several religious traditions in Japan. It extends in Shinto norito to the avoidance of words (imi-kotoba) which might exert a bad influence. The notion of kotodama has in the twentieth century been elevated to a pseudo-science by some popular writers who view the entire Japanese language as uniquely endowed with spiritial power.

This book is 10 years old, so I don't think the author has read Tenjo Tenge yet :)
Thanks for the info. I'll work that into a translator note next time I edit the TJTG chapter. That's much better information than what I had - just from doing some googling in Japanese...
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Post by MrProphet »

E_G's chapter 80 is out in the usual places.
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Post by MrProphet »


Last edited by MrProphet on Wed Feb 02, 2005 5:01 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Post by Evanidus »

FuguTabetai wrote:Actually, I just got another translation script from Nihonjintaylor,
As a sidenote, nihonjintaylor made the translation for EG to use (he's DanH)

So same script in EG's ch80 that was released aproximatly ~20 hours after he finished the trans, if didn't notice yet ;)

He did for ch78-79 too.
Last edited by Evanidus on Wed Feb 02, 2005 4:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Evanidus »

MrProphet wrote:All in all, this month I prefer Fugu's work. I don't know what the deal with E_G is, maybe they switched translators or something, but this is not a keeper, I'm telling you.
We _did_ switch.

Ch75-77 was translated by Ynot? (he was one of EG's main translator working on many projects at once), however -- since he's busy with a lot of things lately, he's no longer able to keep up (or translate at all actually).

So DanH (nihonjintaylor) translated 78-80 for tenten.

--

Personally (as a reader) I like the translation, and love when things like you mentioned are left as romaji (I actually been cheering him to leave it like that, so guess I'm partly to blame ;p)

But this is really a question of opinion I guess. Everyone have their preferences on the topic.
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Post by MrProphet »

That's true. It's a question of opinion. Personally, I respect your group immensly for picking up TJTG after Fugu left it sit there for some time. And that's the reason I even bother with comparing both releases at all. Because you try to do something for the fans for free. And I respect you guys for that, no matter what gripes I might have.
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Post by Evanidus »

MrProphet wrote:That's true. It's a question of opinion. Personally, I respect your group immensly for picking up TJTG after Fugu left it sit there for some time. And that's the reason I even bother with comparing both releases at all. Because you try to do something for the fans for free. And I respect you guys for that, no matter what gripes I might have.
heh, thanks ;)
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Post by Oro »

DanH/Nihonjintaylor's Dad passed away few days ago,so thats why i think he rushed it.:(

http://www.udanstraight.com/index.php
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Post by MrProphet »

Damn.. that's sad. I feel bad for posting all of that critique now...
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Post by MrProphet »

FuguTabetai wrote:I don't like the quality of the scans I've been translating from since I started going with UJ scans and not scanning myself, but I don't have the time anymore to do my own scanning. These have been all I could find lately.
I think the quality is alright. It's not the same as tankoubon quality, but it's alright for a magazine scan.
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Post by Agent_Wax »

Just a note on the 'kotodama' concept...

it's not unique to Japanese or Buddhism or Shinto, whatever the Japanese may like you to believe. Many ancient cultures and religions have long held the belief that words and language have mystical power. Even in Christianity, 'first there was the word'. Ceremonial Magick (and many other styles of Magick) often requires the use of elaborately-worded (and specific) incantations. Grant Morrison made use of language as a weapon in The Invisibles (but I'm not sure where he derived the idea).
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Post by Agent_Wax »

http://www.pbase.com/selvin/image/26746408&exif=Y

"Do not underestimate warriors..."

:lol: :lol:
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Post by Melchior »

I'm kinda curious as to what exactly Inue was referring to about Masataka that made Mitsoumi so angry. It was something about manipulation or using him, but i'm not sure in what context (if i recall F's leader was quite taken aback at Masatak's ability to break his magic over Fu). And referring back to that, what's with the "True Warrior" business anyways? B/c if i recall, the Takanyagi family head (before Mitsoumi) was working to create the true warrior when they were experimenting with Shin way way back.

And of all the point counter-points made in this thread, I'd have to say that madoka was definetly manipulated by mr wedding dress as he basically admits he was using magic to control her (i'm guessing similar how they're trying to do with nagi).
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Post by MrProphet »

Inue implied that they would use Masataka as a figurehead instead of Mitsuomi if Mitsuomi is going to misbehave.
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Post by kk1 »

Melchior wrote:And referring back to that, what's with the "True Warrior" business anyways? B/c if i recall, the Takanyagi family head (before Mitsoumi) was working to create the true warrior when they were experimenting with Shin way way back.
Dougen was trying to make Mitsuomi "the true warrior" a warrior from Takayanagi legend to save("save them from the spirits that cursed them") red feather family members born with powers (which is why he's helping train Nagi now), Mistuomi once he found out decided in his view the "true warrior" would just become powerful enough to counteract those people or as he put it "control a poison with another poison" and had his coupe de tat against his father and split with Maya over how to control such people at school. (this is all at the beginning of vol 8 )
After experiencing how strong Masataka was (beating a red feather power), Souhaku wondered if maybe Masataka might be the Takayanagi who is the true warrior and not Mitsuomi.
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