Fight 81

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

Moderator: FuguTabetai

User avatar
Agent_Wax
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:24 am

Post by Agent_Wax » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:09 pm

kk1 wrote:
And what is Aya's shirt supposed to be saying on the splash page where she's writing on the McDonald's window? Roman Fanta -is? (pretty funny his English is still bad and divided the word to make it try to fit, who would buy a shirt like that? "I Love Tenjho Ten -ge")
I think there's a typo. It's supposed to be 'Roman Fantasie'. And a girl with boobs like that can wear any damn thing she wants.


MrProphet wrote:
I just noticed that Maya is using her school tie as a sling..

OK, is she suicidal or what?
Well, in the first place, a necktie is nothing more than a giant arrow pointing to your crotch. Might as well use it for something worthwhile.


pv82 wrote:
what was her middle name?
'Danjou'. I don't think it is a middle name. Japanese don't have middle names. It's probably, like 'Shindayuu' or 'Kengo' or
'Yorihira', an inherited title held by all the heads of the families.

I don't think it's physically possible to button up that shirt around "Those Two" (c) without ripping it apart.
She could have her shirts taylor-made, like Aya no doubt does. Maya probably just has an exhibitionist streak. :D

User avatar
Natsume Maya
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:01 pm
Location: Natsume Goushin Ryu Dojo
Contact:

Post by Natsume Maya » Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:28 pm

Dominant Star wrote:erm... and where did you get the sources for that avatar???
It's from an Animedia photo I've got. I think the artwork was first used for an Animedia article or poster.
Agent_Wax wrote:kk1 wrote:
pv82 wrote:
what was her middle name?
'Danjou'. I don't think it is a middle name. Japanese don't have middle names. It's probably, like 'Shindayuu' or 'Kengo' or
'Yorihira', an inherited title held by all the heads of the families.
Japanese today don't have middle names. In the past some nobles etc had middle names which could be titles. I don't know whether those names/titles were hereditary, though.

Edit: Danjou can be a given name in Japanese, I think. (As can Kengo, I thought). So it needn't necessarily be a title in this case. I guess Oh! great put this sort of stuff in to emphasise the noble roots of the various families.
Natsume Danjou Maya.
http://natsumemaya.net/ (new website address)

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:27 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:For those of you interested, I've got a few pages done in my translation. Up for your text-reading enjoyment at http://fugu.cs.columbia.edu/tjtg/TJTG_13_Trans.html

fugu
Isn't that first page Ishiyumi speaking, not Maya?

And on page 7 isn't Masatka starting to say "niisan"(Mistuomi) and not "two"?

User avatar
FuguTabetai
Shifu
Shifu
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:45 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by FuguTabetai » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:51 pm

kk1 wrote: Isn't that first page Ishiyumi speaking, not Maya?
Yes. But I wasn't able to change the bubble character assignment remotely.
kk1 wrote: And on page 7 isn't Masatka starting to say "niisan"(Mistuomi) and not "two"?
Possibly. I didn't see his brother around anywhere, so I was guessing "two" if they are training. But I put the note there because I wasn't sure.

User avatar
pv82
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 686
Joined: Tue Aug 19, 2003 12:13 pm
Location: H Town

Post by pv82 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 10:52 pm

Hey natsume, you got any info on the upcoming Volume 13. Maybe who will be on the next cover 8) .

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:23 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:
kk1 wrote: And on page 7 isn't Masatka starting to say "niisan"(Mistuomi) and not "two"?
Possibly. I didn't see his brother around anywhere, so I was guessing "two" if they are training. But I put the note there because I wasn't sure.
They're watching him walk in, see Asshat running away in the background? And Kurei with the surprised look on his face?

User avatar
FuguTabetai
Shifu
Shifu
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:45 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by FuguTabetai » Mon Feb 21, 2005 10:16 am

kk1 wrote:They're watching him walk in, see Asshat running away in the background? And Kurei with the surprised look on his face?
I translate as I read, so I didn't know that Mitsuomi was coming. Didn't notice Sugano running away either, until you pointed it out. Anyway, fixed.

Mr_Minou
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 9
Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2004 2:48 pm

Post by Mr_Minou » Mon Feb 21, 2005 4:32 pm

YES ! At last mits and maya teaming up again :D

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Tue Feb 22, 2005 8:37 pm

MrProphet wrote:Anyone else thinks that Nagi is a certifiable "mama's boy" and that Maya looks way to much like Makiko for his affection to be anything but that? 8)

Actually, that would explain a lot. Nagi, being raised by his single mother is attracted to the woman who is so similar to her...
I remember saying the same thing, and you reacting that hopefully, Maya won't lose an arm or two. 8)

Actually, I do agree that it makes a lot of sense.

Dominant Star
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:51 am

Post by Dominant Star » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:43 am

kujoe wrote:I remember saying the same thing, and you reacting that hopefully, Maya won't lose an arm or two. 8)

Actually, I do agree that it makes a lot of sense.
Well... at least... losing an arm or two is much better than die right???
Signature - Do i need one???

User avatar
MrProphet
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by MrProphet » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:53 am

Nope, 'cause you can end up like certain someone's stepbrother...

Dominant Star
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2005 6:51 am

Post by Dominant Star » Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:54 am

MrProphet wrote:Nope, 'cause you can end up like certain someone's stepbrother...
HM??? you mean???
Signature - Do i need one???

Rooster
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 1:38 pm

Post by Rooster » Wed Feb 23, 2005 2:22 am

>> HM??? you mean???

He is referring to Mataza's stepbrother.

Nagi hasn't changed a lot personality wise but I can take it since now he's capable of nice rage-scenes without going mad.

User avatar
TW_J
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 5:36 am
Location: canada

Post by TW_J » Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:32 pm

i never really did mind souichirou's personality the only thing that made me hate his character is how arrogant when he actually was pretty much one of the weakest around. other than that he was ok well maybe picking fights with pplz also pissed me off

User avatar
HappyStealer
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:54 am
Location: Houston, TX.

Post by HappyStealer » Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:58 pm

well yea, that was one of the reasons I disliked nagi at first also. HIs arrogance and his "I'll beat ur ass to the ground." He talked to talk but never walked to walk. But now I think he can basically back up anything he says. He's gotten really up there in strength. But nagi is now like my top 3 favorite chars. Along with mitsuomi and makiko-dono. Btw who are ya'lls fav chars?

EliteF22
Senpai
Senpai
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:16 pm

Post by EliteF22 » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:46 am

I find it hard to understand how people hated Nagi so much at the beginning. You forget he and Bob went to town on all the students who didn't have any powers in the beginning. In terms of street fighting he wasn't all that bad. His mom did not want him to be fighter and thus never taught him anything. So when he went up against opponents who have been trained to fight and have powers, of course he's gonna suck. That's part of the story. We get to see him and Bob transition from school yard bullies to trained, disciplined warriors.

User avatar
HappyStealer
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:54 am
Location: Houston, TX.

Post by HappyStealer » Thu Feb 24, 2005 12:57 am

heh I see ur point elite. Yea its true tho, nagi did come a long way since he was a child. But I think he's always had that street fighter edge to him, but as u said he never got he proper training. We all know for sure he has the persistence to take on any training. He's come way farther now since his dragon was finally revealed.

User avatar
MrProphet
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by MrProphet » Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:19 am

Everybody was an asshole untill you get to know them. Aya has no brains, Maya was a backstabbing twit, Mits was a homoerotic muscule freak, Mana - a whore, Shin - crazy all and all, Masa has a small dick, etc...

I think the only 2 people who were nice all the way was Bob and Bunshichi. Fairly nice to everyone, didn't suck or anything...

EliteF22
Senpai
Senpai
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:16 pm

Post by EliteF22 » Thu Feb 24, 2005 3:35 am

Speaking of Bob, anyone else ever think that Oh! Great got his stereotypes mixed up. Bob being black and having a large penis. The fact that his father's name was Jean Rodorigo, and the fact that Bob practices capioera makes me think his father was brazilian. The large penis stereotype is associated with african americans not south americans. Its interesting to see how other societies deal with the whole race issue.

User avatar
MrProphet
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by MrProphet » Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:02 am

There are quite a lot of blacks, descendants of Africans or mixed, in South Amrica, especially Brazil. About 40%, in fact.

EliteF22
Senpai
Senpai
Posts: 333
Joined: Wed Jun 09, 2004 5:16 pm

Post by EliteF22 » Thu Feb 24, 2005 4:26 am

True, but do they identify themselves as african americans or as brazilians? I knew one costa rican guy who just by looking at him we would say he was black, but never referred to himself as black. In his view he was costa rican. He called african americans black and believed in some of the common stereotypes that exist in our society about african americans. The point I'm trying to get across is that it seems like such a shame that other societies views of different cultures might be influenced by what american society portrays those cultures to be.

Desperto
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 9
Joined: Wed Apr 30, 2003 6:00 pm

Post by Desperto » Thu Feb 24, 2005 8:52 am

EliteF22 wrote:True, but do they identify themselves as african americans or as brazilians? I knew one costa rican guy who just by looking at him we would say he was black, but never referred to himself as black. In his view he was costa rican. He called african americans black and believed in some of the common stereotypes that exist in our society about african americans. The point I'm trying to get across is that it seems like such a shame that other societies views of different cultures might be influenced by what american society portrays those cultures to be.
I'm Braziliam, and we have pretty much everything here, from european caucasians to african decendents, passing for some (most interresting) mixtures like orientals with blacks. After a while we really got over this whole "race" issue, we don't even pay attention to these things anymore. Its all just people, that one has black skin, this one has blue eyes, that girl has huge boobs...you know, just perks. We really dont mind.

About Bob being braziliam and having a huge dick, well. Jean Rodorigo is close to a Braziliam name, Rodrigo is very common here, but i never saw a Rodorigo, Jean on the other hand is getting popular among the people. About the sex ...err...i reallyl dont mean to brag (really), but recent studies show that Brazil (along Italy) is the country with more sex active people, and we have one of the higher average penis lengh ( reaaaally dont want to know how they find this out). And of course, dick lenght isnt determined by the place you were born, so Bob can be from whatever OhGreat wants and still have a huge penis if this is what he wants.

Sorry for the typos and structure, still learning english. Hope this helps.
One step ahead, and you aren't in the same place
Chico Science

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Thu Feb 24, 2005 10:26 am

EliteF22 wrote:Speaking of Bob, anyone else ever think that Oh! Great got his stereotypes mixed up. Bob being black and having a large penis. The fact that his father's name was Jean Rodorigo, and the fact that Bob practices capioera makes me think his father was brazilian. The large penis stereotype is associated with african americans not south americans. Its interesting to see how other societies deal with the whole race issue.
Bob's father was a US army soldier. And the stereotype is probably more of "gaijin" than a black stereotype (though I could be wrong, Maya sure said some kinda stereotyped things in vol2) the avg American male is 5'9" Japanese 5'5", and Bob is 6'2" so "everywhere" must be that much bigger too, which unlike the black stereotype I believe that one IS true, I can only imagine how much spam Japanese men get about penis size "want a gaijin sized penis? take this miracle pill!"

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:49 pm

MrProphet wrote:Everybody was an asshole untill you get to know them. Aya has no brains, Maya was a backstabbing twit, Mits was a homoerotic muscule freak, Mana - a whore, Shin - crazy all and all, Masa has a small dick, etc...

I think the only 2 people who were nice all the way was Bob and Bunshichi. Fairly nice to everyone, didn't suck or anything...
You forgot to mention Chiaki. She was probably the most misunderstood character, I think.

Some claimed she was useless, a whore, pure fanservice, etc.--then she got raped, and then raises some significant questions regarding the mess they're in...

--Which brings me to another point. I wonder what's been going with Bob's side of the current story.

User avatar
Asunder
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 102
Joined: Sat Feb 19, 2005 9:12 pm

Post by Asunder » Thu Feb 24, 2005 6:53 pm

It's a pity we don't see more of Chiaki anymore though.

It'd be kind of odd if Bob joined Mitsoumi's camp for her, don't you think? Since Ryuuzaki or whoever raped her was part of the Enforcement Group.

User avatar
Agent_Wax
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:24 am

Post by Agent_Wax » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:22 pm

Japan is probably the most racist and insular of developed nations today. Stereotypes of non-Japanese abound there. Maya calls Bob 'Gaijin' all the time. Of course, she also calls Nagi 'Kozo', so maybe it's not a race thing.

User avatar
TW_J
Kouhai
Kouhai
Posts: 84
Joined: Sun May 30, 2004 5:36 am
Location: canada

Post by TW_J » Thu Feb 24, 2005 11:45 pm

Asunder wrote:It's a pity we don't see more of Chiaki anymore though.

It'd be kind of odd if Bob joined Mitsoumi's camp for her, don't you think? Since Ryuuzaki or whoever raped her was part of the Enforcement Group.
but u have to admit though mitsoumi is really good at training people in more ways than maya can and if bob joined the enforcers there is a great possibility that he may be as strong as masataka

User avatar
HappyStealer
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:54 am
Location: Houston, TX.

Post by HappyStealer » Fri Feb 25, 2005 1:44 am

well I've known quite the amount of japanese people and a lot of them are very haughty. Well, depends on the situation, mitsuomi seems to be a better trainer for non-special power people like bob but maya seems like a better choice to train someone like nagi or aya.

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Fri Feb 25, 2005 2:50 am

Hmmm. I'm not sure about the racist part, but probably a mix of xenophobia and perhaps racism to some extent. From what I can tell from my stay here so far, foreigners are viewed as the "Other" more than anything else most of the time. "Gaijins" are, first and foremost, "not Japanese." And then of course, depending on the situation or the person, some racist ideas can be inserted with that idea.

For example, if you happen to be Caucasian, expect a lot of stares heading your way when you get on the train. At least, this doesn't happen to me often.

User avatar
hitori
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 256
Joined: Wed Feb 12, 2003 2:30 pm
Location: Toudou Gakuen

Post by hitori » Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:09 am

But the staring, uncomfortableness, and misconception about foreigners is mostly due to unfamiliarity rather than racism.
If you say any form of differing treatment between people depending on their race IS racism, then it is.

But most Japanese people differentiate the foerigners because they simply don't see them as often and consequently don't know too much about them.

Unlike Europe and the Americas, Japan is 99% native Japanese. (according to CIA World Fact Book)
There are the others; namely Koreans 511,262, Chinese 244,241, Brazilians 182,232, Filipino 89,851, other 237,914.
http://cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ja.html

The chance of seeing a Caucasian in Japan is so small. (belonging to the "other" category from above)
And the bulk of the people of foreigners in Japan are the military people from the US, concentrated in the base areas.

People hardly ever see foreigners in their daily lives.
I have a mixed heritage and when I used to live in Colorado, some people didn't know what to do around my family.
Most wanted to be polite, but we still got the stares and even racist jokes.

My $0.02... :)

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:11 am

hitori wrote:But the staring, uncomfortableness, and misconception about foreigners is mostly due to unfamiliarity rather than racism.
If you say any form of differing treatment between people depending on their race IS racism, then it is.
True. That's what I was trying to say... Sorry if I wasn't being clear enough. Racist ideas can be expressed--just a possibility in other words, as it is in any other place--but for the most part, I haven't witnessed nor experienced anything of that sort. Heck, I even don't get the stares. But I can get them too when I tag along with some American or European friends of mine. In many ways I can understand why, but I can also understand how some people can be a bit annoyed by it.

Yes, "racist" is perhaps the wrong word--more like socially-established "gaijin" (as in, outsiders..) ideas I think. For instance, foreign residents have to carry an Alien Registration Card.

In relation to how Japan views other countries--well, it seems North Korea is a hot topic on Japanese television nowadays...or rather, was for quite a time.
Last edited by kujoe on Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
FuguTabetai
Shifu
Shifu
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:45 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by FuguTabetai » Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:50 am

Well, I have a lot I could say on this topic (which is, you know, somewhat off from chapter 81) since I've spent some time in Japan, and am currently dating a Korean who went to high school in Japan, but I'll keep my views to myself.

I do want to point out though, that if you are in Tokyo and/or Osaka, foreigners are not all that rare. I never got stares in any of my trips (post first-visit in in 1986 or so) - except for when I was in Okayama, a pretty out-of-the-way area.

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:16 pm

Yeah when I took a trip to Japan(mostly Tokyo), I really don't remeber being stared at, at all, and everyone I came in contact with was actually exceedingly nice.

User avatar
Natsume Maya
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 162
Joined: Fri Mar 14, 2003 4:01 pm
Location: Natsume Goushin Ryu Dojo
Contact:

Post by Natsume Maya » Fri Feb 25, 2005 7:50 pm

kujoe wrote:--Which brings me to another point. I wonder what's been going with Bob's side of the current story.
Yeah, I have a feeling that Oh! great has held back on this side of the story (and only shows him doing mundane training like running etc) to surprise us with how much Bob has improved later on. The way I saw things, the Mitsuomi and Maya would join forces against F and Bob would accept Mitsuomi's training.
Natsume Danjou Maya.
http://natsumemaya.net/ (new website address)

User avatar
Agent_Wax
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 585
Joined: Thu Feb 27, 2003 2:24 am

Post by Agent_Wax » Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:44 pm

What I was actually trying to point out isn't so much the stares that foreigners get while in Japan. And everybody usually loves tourists anyway, since they're bringing in money. But you'll have a hard time there if you stay for any long periods of time. Especially if you happen to be Korean.

From my personal experience with Japanese people (including my sensei), they're exceedingly kind and decent and helpful. But the Japanese nation, on a whole, seem to have an ingrained cultural sensibility that takes the form of 'looking down on other races and culture with half-disgust and half-condescension'. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. I'm having trouble putting it into words. Or maybe it's just a conservative right-wing kind of thing.

Anyway, can you imagine seeing news like this in the US or Britain?
http://www.asahi.com/english/nation/TKY ... 70135.html

Hitori points out that Japan is 99% homogenous, but the reason for this is that Japan simply refuses to allow many foreigners into the country, and refuses to grant citizenship to most non-ethnic Japanese residents. For a nation to more understanding and tolerant of various cultures and races, it must first become racially and culturally heterogenous. Even with an impending labour and age crisis, the government still refuses to allow skilled migrants into Japan, citing nonsensical excuses such as possible increase in crime rates with immigrants.

I'm certainly not judging them or anything of that sort. The Japanese have every right to their cultural and lifestyle preferences as anyone else. I'm simply pointing out that this type of elitism is archaic and increasingly uncommon in developed nations, except perhaps for certain sections of the community (neo-nazis, anyone?).

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Sat Feb 26, 2005 12:45 am

Agent_Wax wrote:What I was actually trying to point out isn't so much the stares that foreigners get while in Japan. And everybody usually loves tourists anyway, since they're bringing in money. But you'll have a hard time there if you stay for any long periods of time. Especially if you happen to be Korean.

From my personal experience with Japanese people (including my sensei), they're exceedingly kind and decent and helpful. But the Japanese nation, on a whole, seem to have an ingrained cultural sensibility that takes the form of 'looking down on other races and culture with half-disgust and half-condescension'. I don't know if that makes a lot of sense. I'm having trouble putting it into words. Or maybe it's just a conservative right-wing kind of thing.
I think the US and most nations have that "we're #1" attitude, you can't turn on tv any more and not hear people bashing other countries, because they don't agree with us.

Agent_Wax wrote: Hitori points out that Japan is 99% homogenous, but the reason for this is that Japan simply refuses to allow many foreigners into the country, and refuses to grant citizenship to most non-ethnic Japanese residents. For a nation to more understanding and tolerant of various cultures and races, it must first become racially and culturally heterogenous.
Says who? Just because the US and some European countries do this doesn't mean it will work for everyone (and I would argue the US and Europe still aren't "models" of cutural and racial tolerance.)
Agent_Wax wrote: I'm certainly not judging them or anything of that sort. The Japanese have every right to their cultural and lifestyle preferences as anyone else. I'm simply pointing out that this type of elitism is archaic and increasingly uncommon in developed nations, except perhaps for certain sections of the community (neo-nazis, anyone)?
I think that comparison's a little extreme, I was reading an really interesting book this month and in it there was a section about how most people don't realize just how homogeneous nations became in the last century and how homogeneous the world itself is becoming. I'm sure alot of people have heard of how the Academie Francaise has been trying to keep foreign influences out of the French language recently, but I'm sure few know only 150 years ago less than half the people of France spoke French, most spoke local dialects and languages(Basque, Breton, Occitan,Corsican,Alsatian) in Italy only 10% spoke Italian!) I see nothing wrong with a small country like Japan taking what some people see as un -PC methods to want to try protect that which makes it unique. I'm sure most anime and manga fans are familiar with all the English that is used. When I went there I was a little disappointed to see just how "westernized" Japan (at least around Tokyo) was. I hope in the furture Japan stays "Japanese" because it's those uniquely Japanese characteristics which I like about it so much.

User avatar
HappyStealer
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:54 am
Location: Houston, TX.

Post by HappyStealer » Sat Feb 26, 2005 1:19 am

well, racism and discrimination will probably last for a very long time until most of us start breeding together and we'll all be one lovely color. Beige! but there are many factors that contribute to racism and discrimination also ex. economical, ecological, etc... But anyways, so the water bullet cannot kill, it can only put a hole in you? Is that what I am reading?

User avatar
FuguTabetai
Shifu
Shifu
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:45 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by FuguTabetai » Sat Feb 26, 2005 9:48 am

HappyStealer wrote:well, racism and discrimination will probably last for a very long time until most of us start breeding together and we'll all be one lovely color. Beige! but there are many factors that contribute to racism and discrimination also ex. economical, ecological, etc... But anyways, so the water bullet cannot kill, it can only put a hole in you? Is that what I am reading?
Well, I haven't translated Ishiyumi's rebuttal - that's coming up next. But yes, so far that's what has been said.

zip
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 70
Joined: Mon Nov 10, 2003 5:32 am

Post by zip » Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:30 pm

sorry to go a bit offtopic but what's the kanji/katakane for ulrtajump if i want to make a search for it on winny?

User avatar
FuguTabetai
Shifu
Shifu
Posts: 2587
Joined: Mon Feb 10, 2003 5:45 pm
Location: Tokyo, Japan
Contact:

Post by FuguTabetai » Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:35 pm

zip wrote:sorry to go a bit offtopic but what's the kanji/katakane for ulrtajump if i want to make a search for it on winny?
ウルトラジャンプ
and Tenjo Tenge is (if you don't know by now) 天上天下

User avatar
jaguar
Yuurei
Yuurei
Posts: 19
Joined: Wed Nov 24, 2004 5:41 am

Post by jaguar » Sat Feb 26, 2005 8:29 pm

Thanks for the translation so far, Fugu!

User avatar
HappyStealer
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:54 am
Location: Houston, TX.

Post by HappyStealer » Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:31 am

Kick butt translation fugu. Man, I don't know about you guys but I felt sorry for nagi. Everyone claims they know him and stuff but noone really does. He's been through a lot in these couple of chapters maybe not like maya, mitsuomi or makiko but he's gone through some tough stuff. Makes ya feel kinda bad for the guy. Just wish his powers weren't evil....... Oh well thats expected from oh great.

User avatar
kk1
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 1138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 2:34 am

Post by kk1 » Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:43 am

Why are Nagi's power's evil? If Oh Great uses him the way I think he will, I have a feeling you'll change your mind.

User avatar
HappyStealer
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:54 am
Location: Houston, TX.

Post by HappyStealer » Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:53 am

well the demon exorcist power is not the most holy power of them all. Because from what has been shown so far, the dragon powers aren;t really on the light side or good, they are more of the evil side and dark. Btw, does anyone have the tenjou tenge op theme song? Full or anime? My cousin deleted my tenjou tenge music folder. :cry: Btw, what do you mean oh great using the powers like you think he will? Enlighten me

User avatar
MrProphet
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by MrProphet » Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:30 am

Demon Exorcist powers are not evil in themselves. However, many others who have commented on them have said that they are hated, despised, they are black, evil, whatever.

Why? Naturally, because the Demon Exorcist powers steal the powers of other families (!!! remember, Demon=Dragon !!!).

Thus, when we hear about the "evil powers", just take a look at who's talking. That may give you a hint.

User avatar
HappyStealer
Doushi
Doushi
Posts: 197
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2004 12:54 am
Location: Houston, TX.

Post by HappyStealer » Sun Feb 27, 2005 1:40 am

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!! LOL i get it!! Thanx mr prophet! You've certainly enlightened me! Hehe, now I totally understand what your trying to say.

User avatar
kujoe
Sensei
Sensei
Posts: 661
Joined: Mon Jun 23, 2003 7:41 am
Location: Vancouver, Canada

Post by kujoe » Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:03 am

MrProphet wrote:Why? Naturally, because the Demon Exorcist powers steal the powers of other families (!!! remember, Demon=Dragon !!!).
It gives a new spin to the "Exorcist" part.

MrProphet's right... Just take a look at Dragon's Palm. Can anyone actually classify that power as evil in itself?

User avatar
MrProphet
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by MrProphet » Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:40 am

Yup.

In fact, I think that the purpose of the Nagi clan was not to exorcise literal demons as we would understand it in the context of modern culture, but to weed out the bad apples among the 12 clans and 36 families who have abused their power and turned it to evil.

Thus, while other clans were mainly preoccupied with war and fighting the external enemies of the Takayanagi, Nagi clan was a sort of Internal Security for the Takayanagi and the families.

You can see why the other Founding Families would hate them... Nobody likes the Policeman.

Rooster
Tamashii
Tamashii
Posts: 66
Joined: Thu May 20, 2004 1:38 pm

Post by Rooster » Sun Feb 27, 2005 5:45 am

As has already been said, the powers themselves aren't evil, or they don't have any Stormbringer-esque qualities in them at least, the powers give the user greater potential to do evil.

The evil in Ishiyumi's exclamation correlates directly with Souichirou's technique's destructive power. Ishiyumi used a more "pure" technique (maybe he lacked the strength to manipulate liquid more efficiently) while Souichirou packs a whole more punch to it.

User avatar
MrProphet
Bushi
Bushi
Posts: 939
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2004 6:11 pm
Location: Tallinn, Estonia

Post by MrProphet » Sun Feb 27, 2005 6:21 am

The evilness in Ishiyumi's thoughts about Nagi's water dragon are only his opinion.

Who would you say that something inanimate (like the Water Dragon technique) is evil? Evil is an intent... or an action. Object cannot be evil in itself unless it it has lead to some consequense.

Ishiyumi is trying to say that Nagi's version looks "scarier" or "more potent" that his own, nothing else. "Scarier" is a reflection of Ishiyumi's attitute. "More potent" is a reflection of the object itself (Water Dragon).

"Evil" is neither of those, since Nagi didn't use it yet, thus he has created no consequence. Unless you count Nagi's intent to beat Ishiyumi as evil, but that is a total judgement call and you don't need Water Dragon to have that intent.

So... quod erat demonstrandum. Actions are evil... intent can be evil (leading to evil). An inanimate object is neither of those.

Post Reply