Fight 82

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Post by MrProphet »

Considering how her "power" interpreted Maya's healing of Nagi as a passionate kiss, yes, she knows jack about all of it... 8)
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Post by Isuzu »

kk1 wrote:Of course she is a girl with the power to see the future too :wink:
It's always a disadvantage to be able to see into the future, don't you know about the classic story about Kassandra, the seer of Troy? ;)

But not only there... people who can see into the future get screwed by their talent sooner or later. It's in "The Lord of the Rings", too, and Kreon, the Lord of Thebes got killed by his son because he listened to the Oracle of Delphi. Unfortunately, my literary knowledge is not deep enough to be able to give you more examples. You see, the old Greeks were a pretty wise people, and they figured out that seeing the future is rather problematic more than 2000 years ago.

The point is: you see something, but you don't know how to interpret it in the right way, so it's better to get rid of such a 'talent'. Aya should beg Soichiro to free her of her Dragon's Eye.
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Post by EliteF22 »

That's what I feel might happen. Souichirou for some reason eats Aya's dragon eye. If Oh! Great decides not to go with the Aya x Souichirou pairing, this would serve as a perfect nail in that relationships coffin. Aya hardly ever uses her power anyway, its kinda wasted on her.

The possibility that Maya likes Souichirou is already pretty high. The first two volume events already alluded to this. Here we have Aya possibly confirming it and there's also her later line "Why does she pretend?" which seems to be confirming that Maya pretends that she is not interested in Souichirou for Aya's sake. If you had someone you liked, wouldn't you want to see them realise their full potential? Maya hasn't really taught Souichirou anything since the forged needle. Lately, she hasn't been so much his teacher as his leader.
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Post by Faust Am »

EliteF22 wrote:That's what I feel might happen. Souichirou for some reason eats Aya's dragon eye. If Oh! Great decides not to go with the Aya x Souichirou pairing, this would serve as a perfect nail in that relationships coffin. Aya hardly ever uses her power anyway, its kinda wasted on her.

The possibility that Maya likes Souichirou is already pretty high. The first two volume events already alluded to this. Here we have Aya possibly confirming it and there's also her later line "Why does she pretend?" which seems to be confirming that Maya pretends that she is not interested in Souichirou for Aya's sake. If you had someone you liked, wouldn't you want to see them realise their full potential? Maya hasn't really taught Souichirou anything since the forged needle. Lately, she hasn't been so much his teacher as his leader.
Oooohhhhhhh

But if that is so.... hm... I wonder.... what will happen to Mitsuomi???
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Post by kujoe »

Souichirou stealing Aya's Dragon Eye? That would be overkill in a bad way in my opinion. It would be already too much, plus it takes away Aya's significance in the group all together. And I'm not only referring to her relationship with Souichirou either, but where would that place Reiki all of sudden? Will Souichirou have something to do with that too in the near future because of the Dragon Eye? Or will it just be "there," left in obscurity, humming all the way in Maya's hands as Souichirou deals with his dad?

Also, Aya's Dragon Eye just shows her events. It's really up to her how she would interpret them..or how she would use them. So that kiss for her is, well, a kiss. I do however, believe that Maya feels something for Nagi, but it's nothing like a romantic feeling whatsoever--more like she sees him in an affectionate way with a warm sense of admiration. Mitsuomi is still in her mind, you know. But I do sense that there's going to be some sorting out between her and Nagi. If there's going to be some romantic tension between the two, I'm guessing it'll be because Nagi reminds her of something from her past, or something platonic in that sense.
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Post by hhv94 »

I love to guess at this whole big love rectangle going on. Mitousumi loves Maya and Maya loves Mitsoumi while, Souchiro says he loves Maya, and Aya loves Souchiro. Triyng to figure this out is insane until one of them cracks and shouts out honestly what they feel.
I do think Maya's still in love with Mitsoumi and looking back its very possible she sees Souchiro as a student that she is respoinsible for while Aya could be seeing this the wrong way and thinking its love. The possibilities are endless. Not to mention the other ppl who have crushes on all of them. I love guessing though..its fun!!! :D
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Post by kk1 »

hhv94 wrote:I love to guess at this whole big love rectangle going on. Mitousumi loves Maya and Maya loves Mitsoumi while, Souchiro says he loves Maya, and Aya loves Souchiro. Triyng to figure this out is insane until one of them cracks and shouts out honestly what they feel.
:D
2 of them already have :wink:
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Post by kk1 »

EliteF22 wrote:That's what I feel might happen. Souichirou for some reason eats Aya's dragon eye. If Oh! Great decides not to go with the Aya x Souichirou pairing, this would serve as a perfect nail in that relationships coffin. Aya hardly ever uses her power anyway, its kinda wasted on her. .

But the only way he could is if she let him, kinda the nature of the power she could see he would do it and stop him.

EliteF22 wrote: The possibility that Maya likes Souichirou is already pretty high. The first two volume events already alluded to this. Here we have Aya possibly confirming it and there's also her later line "Why does she pretend?" which seems to be confirming that Maya pretends that she is not interested in Souichirou for Aya's sake. If you had someone you liked, wouldn't you want to see them realise their full potential? Maya hasn't really taught Souichirou anything since the forged needle. Lately, she hasn't been so much his teacher as his leader.
Well she does want him to reach his full potential, she's the one who asked his mother to train him because she taught him all she can and he needed the training of people who know how to use red feather powers, something she can't do.
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Post by kk1 »

Isuzu wrote:
kk1 wrote:Of course she is a girl with the power to see the future too :wink:
It's always a disadvantage to be able to see into the future, don't you know about the classic story about Kassandra, the seer of Troy? ;).
No, but I have seen a few episodes of "That's So Raven" which I'm sure is pretty similar. :wink:

Isuzu wrote:
The point is: you see something, but you don't know how to interpret it in the right way, so it's better to get rid of such a 'talent'. Aya should beg Soichiro to free her of her Dragon's Eye.
Unless it's your own death like Shin, that's pretty straightforward.
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Post by kujoe »

hhv94 wrote:The possibilities are endless. Not to mention the other ppl who have crushes on all of them. I love guessing though..its fun!!! :D
Yeah, like..

Isuzu -> Mitsuomi
Masataka -> Aya

and quite possibly,

Madoka -> Masataka
Shizuru -> Nagi

You got to hand it to Bob and Asshat. At least, they're already pretty settled with their significant other(s). :P
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Post by EliteF22 »

Man and their only in high school. The way Oh! Great draws them, they all look like their in their 20's. Gotta keep reminding myself that their all in teens.
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Post by Faust Am »

O.... so... it can be like this right??? :

Maya Natsume x Nagi

Aya Natsume x Masataka

Isuzu Emi x Mitsuomi

Chiaki x Bob

Hm.... it can end like this right???
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Post by kujoe »

Possibly... but I for one think the "let's move on, I found someone else.." scenario wouldn't work so well with Maya and Mitsuomi considering the past arc and all.

And if Mitsuomi dies in the story--well, that just makes a Nagi and Maya relationship all the more harder to pull of. It kinda leaves a sour after taste in my opinion.

Actually, I'd rather see something between Maya and Mitsuomi that attempts to reconcile them with their past--in one way or another.
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Post by FuguTabetai »

Man, that seemed like a short chapter.

Did people come to a concensous on who the ghost character was? I'm of the impression that it is either Aya, or Makiko, or some manifestation of Dragon's Eye past/future thing influenced a bit by both of them...

and that person crucified on the gate on the last page? One of the reasons I have that characters page is that I'm just bad at recognizing people, but still, I don't think that was Makiko...?
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Post by EliteF22 »

I thought everyone was under the impression that the person at the end was Makiko. It seems that Aya's "spirit guide" is her dragon appearing as a mirror version of Aya. Next chapter is going to be interesting. Looks like we finally get to see more of Makiko's past and some more explanation about the dragon's. Weren't all the red feather powers activated eight years ago? Maybe Souhaku did something to Makiko to cause all the red feather powers to activate. That could mean that Souchirou is now needed in order to seal them all up again.
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Post by underdark »

I would say that the ghost is a manifestation of the dragon's eye power, trying to show Aya's subconciuous something that I still don't get, maybe the real power that is sleeping inside her?

The crucified one too could be the ghost itself, the thing that the earlier ghost was trying to show Aya. The tattoo appears to be part of a dragon's body, don't know.
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Post by kk1 »

FuguTabetai wrote:Man, that seemed like a short chapter.

Sure did :(
FuguTabetai wrote: Did people come to a concensous on who the ghost character was? I'm of the impression that it is either Aya, or Makiko, or some manifestation of Dragon's Eye past/future thing influenced a bit by both of them......?
Anthropomorphized Dragon's eye that looks like Aya.

FuguTabetai wrote: and that person crucified on the gate on the last page? One of the reasons I have that characters page is that I'm just bad at recognizing people, but still, I don't think that was Makiko...?
Even with that tagline about the next chapter?! Check out the first couple pages of fight 79.
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Post by kk1 »

EliteF22 wrote:I thought everyone was under the impression that the person at the end was Makiko. It seems that Aya's "spirit guide" is her dragon appearing as a mirror version of Aya. Next chapter is going to be interesting. Looks like we finally get to see more of Makiko's past and some more explanation about the dragon's. Weren't all the red feather powers activated eight years ago? Maybe Souhaku did something to Makiko to cause all the red feather powers to activate. That could mean that Souchirou is now needed in order to seal them all up again.
Yeah I theorized that(Makiko activating the red feather powers) in some thread somewhere, but I figure Nagi isn't being used to seal them but to do the exact same thing, activate all the latent powers so Souhaku can kill them all. Giving Nagi all that power should make him resonate with other red feathers and activate their powers just like his mother did 8 years ago. I figure he wants to know who has a red feather power so he can get rid of them. I assume he does since Madoka said he was dedicated to the slaughter of the 12 families.
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Post by EliteF22 »

Wasn't the slaughter of the founding families, in order for him to be able to gain control?
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Post by MrProphet »

EliteF22 wrote:Wasn't the slaughter of the founding families, in order for him to be able to gain control?
It could be just a blatant powergrab, but I doubt it because Souhaku has said that he wants to eradicate the demons Makiko has spawned (a reference to the resonance, perhaps?).

To me, Souhaku is more of an ideologue than a power-hungry person, and he is probably fighting for something he believes in, for more than just control, because people who just want to be on top rarely massacre their potential powerbase. His desire to eradicate the Red Feathers seems to be grounded more in faith in his beliefs of the danger that the Reds pose, rather than just a means to supplant Takayanagi.

I mean, who's he going to rule, if he just kills them all off? No, it's deeper than that, definitely.
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Post by kk1 »

MrProphet wrote:
EliteF22 wrote:Wasn't the slaughter of the founding families, in order for him to be able to gain control?
It could be just a blatant powergrab, but I doubt it because Souhaku has said that he wants to eradicate the demons Makiko has spawned (a reference to the resonance, perhaps?).

.
Isn't that the other way around? Makiko said he is going to bring about 1000 demons so she'll get rid of 1500.
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Post by MrProphet »

Nope.
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Post by kk1 »

MrProphet wrote:Nope.
?? That's what she says at the beginning of vol 79, see the bubble points to her.
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Post by EliteF22 »

That confused me too. Who does that bubble point to?
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Post by kk1 »

EliteF22 wrote:That confused me too. Who does that bubble point to?
Bottom right of the bubble points up to Makiko, Fugu also has her speaking that line in his translation, Makiko even says something similar when she sees Souhaku at the hospital, when she heard a "demon" had popped up somewhere she'd go after it thinking it might be him.
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Post by MrProphet »

No, it's Souhaku, who says that.

Look here and here.

It's the continuation of his words about Makiko planning to betray him.
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Post by EliteF22 »

But on the page 101 the large exclamation bubble, if you notice on the bottom right the trail points back up to Makiko.
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Post by MrProphet »

There are actually arrows pointing in all directions. 8)

It's a bit unclear, who is saying what, but contextually, I think it's Souhaku.
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Post by FuguTabetai »

MrProphet wrote:There are actually arrows pointing in all directions. 8)

It's a bit unclear, who is saying what, but contextually, I think it's Souhaku.
I think it is Makiko.
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Post by kk1 »

FuguTabetai wrote:
MrProphet wrote:There are actually arrows pointing in all directions. 8)

It's a bit unclear, who is saying what, but contextually, I think it's Souhaku.
I think it is Makiko.
Yeah Makiko is a "demon exorcist" she doesn't make demons she gets rid of them :twisted:
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Post by kujoe »

I think the expression that Makiko uses, is someting like, "while Souhaku will bring about 1000 demons, she'll be killing 1500 demons." Yeah like kk1 said, it makes sense considering she's the "exorcist" among the Red Feather Clans. Heck, even Bunshichi uses the term when he decides to fight Shin.

Frankly, I really don't know why Souhaku would be using Nagi in order to eradicate the Red Feathers. Does he even need someone from Makiko's line just to find them? Then why does he go about feeding Souichirou? Just so he can kill him after he's stolen all the red feather abilities in order to finally get rid of them once and for all?

That doesn't seem to make sense with regard to what Inue said when she got punched by Mitsuomi--about "how it doesn't matter how much meat we feed him.."
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Post by kk1 »

kujoe wrote: Frankly, I really don't know why Souhaku would be using Nagi in order to eradicate the Red Feathers. Does he even need someone from Makiko's line just to find them? Then why does he go about feeding Souichirou? Just so he can kill him after he's stolen all the red feather abilities in order to finally get rid of them once and for all?
Not just the red feathers but all 12 families (going from what Madoka said). Is it to find them? I'm not sure but we do know Souhaku did the same thing with Makiko 8 years ago and the resonance of all that energy in her activated the latent powers of numerous red feathers. It seems like he then gets Tetsuhito to take them. Will he kill NAgi? Well he couldn't kill Makiko, so maybe, like her, he'll just take an arm and tell him to go back to being a normal kid. :twisted:

kujoe wrote: That doesn't seem to make sense with regard to what Inue said when she got punched by Mitsuomi--about "how it doesn't matter how much meat we feed him.."

Uhmm I can't find that, before he hits her he says he knows Souhaku is using members of the 12 families as meat and she mocks Mitsuomi by saying he can be "meat" too...but I don't see what your refering too.
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Post by zangetsu »

Man and their only in high school. The way Oh! Great draws them, they all look like their in their 20's.
Ironically, so do Nagi's parents. Hell, Souhaku looks about 3 years older then his own son.
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Post by Asunder »

I've been pondering this for a while...does Souhaku love Makiko?

She seems to have feelings for him, as indicated in the hospital scene, but does he reciprocate?
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Post by kk1 »

Asunder wrote:I've been pondering this for a while...does Souhaku love Makiko?

She seems to have feelings for him, as indicated in the hospital scene, but does he reciprocate?
:shock: he used her, cut off her arm, left her, dissappeared and showed up 8 years later only to kidnap her son, yeah he must love her :roll:
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Post by EliteF22 »

Well, considering they did the deed at least once, I would say he loved her. Note past tense, seems he changed somewhere along the line. Perhaps when they were younger they were in love, but as in real life things just get more complicated when we get older.
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Post by Asunder »

He could have just as easily killed Makiko, but all he did was cut off her arm and tell her to live as a normal woman. I mean, if Souhaku is really trying to kill all the people with dragon powers, telling Makiko to live as a normal woman may be his way of trying to protect her from his own crusade.
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Post by MrProphet »

Awww, such a sweetie. 8)
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Post by kujoe »

kk1 wrote:Uhmm I can't find that, before he hits her he says he knows Souhaku is using members of the 12 families as meat and she mocks Mitsuomi by saying he can be "meat" too...but I don't see what your refering too.
She says it exactly after he punches her. Ch80p21.

Directly from Fugu's scripts, it's translated as :

It won't matter how much "meat" we feed him like this.
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Post by kk1 »

kujoe wrote:
kk1 wrote:Uhmm I can't find that, before he hits her he says he knows Souhaku is using members of the 12 families as meat and she mocks Mitsuomi by saying he can be "meat" too...but I don't see what your refering too.
She says it exactly after he punches her. Ch80p21.

Directly from Fugu's scripts, it's translated as :

It won't matter how much "meat" we feed him like this.
I think that "we" should be "I" and the "him" in this case is Mitsuomi not Nagi, it sounds more like she's referring to the immediate situation of fighting Mitsuomi by throwing "meat" at him, in this case her preists( and eventually Madoka )and how it won't matter because he's going to kick her ass.
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Post by MrProphet »

In context of Inue's and Kago's previous statements about feeding "meat" to Souichirou, it certainly sounded like Inue is saying that "no matter how much stronger we make Nagi, it won't matter in a fight against Mitsuomi".

Of course, she could be implying what you are saying, but it makes less sense in retrospect.
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Post by EliteF22 »

Inue seemed to under estimate Mitsuomi in that case, and thus felt that Souichirou won't be strong enough to face him. I doubt Souhaku has made the same mistake though and probably has found a way to make sure that Souichirou can take on Mitsuomi.
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Post by kk1 »

Let's see, "Kore de wa ikura "niku" ga atte mo imi ga nai" :arrow:

With this (like this), how much "meat" there is won't matter (will not be of signifigance ,won't mean anything)

Hmmm seems to be quite a liberal translation by Fugu :wink: but the line right before that (Fugu's translation) "I've got to make an adjustment ... re-work the plan" seems to provide the context that this line is referring to her immediate situation and how she's going to get away from Mitsuomi (she just sent some "meat"-her priests at him)and not what Souhaku is doing to Nagi. I would imagine after getting punched across the room and Mitsuomi coming at her for another hit, Nagi would be the furthest thing from her mind. Fugu? I know you're always open to tweaking your translations, whattaya think? anyone else?
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Post by MrProphet »

kk1 wrote:Let's see, "Kore de wa ikura "niku" ga atte mo imi ga nai" :arrow:

With this (like this), how much "meat" there is won't matter (will not be of signifigance ,won't mean anything)
It changes the phrase a bit, but does it change the meaning?

She doesn't say what they do with "meat", and it won't matter against "whom", but the only person we've seen "game cocks" fed to is Nagi. So, I still don't see how she isn't implying that Mitsuomi is too strong, even given all the "meat-feeding" to whoever (naturally, to Nagi).
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Post by kk1 »

MrProphet wrote:
kk1 wrote:Let's see, "Kore de wa ikura "niku" ga atte mo imi ga nai" :arrow:

With this (like this), how much "meat" there is won't matter (will not be of signifigance ,won't mean anything)
It changes the phrase a bit, but does it change the meaning?

She doesn't say what they do with "meat", and it won't matter against "whom", but the only person we've seen "game cocks" fed to is Nagi. So, I still don't see how she isn't implying that Mitsuomi is too strong, even given all the "meat-feeding" to whoever (naturally, to Nagi).
Yeah I admitted I'm wrong one post before you.
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Post by FuguTabetai »

kk1 wrote: Right. From page 11. Where she threatens to make Mitsuomi "meat"? You sorta get that across with your translation but it's still akward

Takayanagi Mitsuomi:
That I don't know what you are doing by taking people from all of the families as so-called "meat"?

That I don't know Souhaku's true purpose!!?


Inue Shindayuu:

(English by fugu) ... And do you think
"that goes for you too"

It isn't that I don't know what "power" is. If you just want to choose to become brute-force "meat" of your own volition that is fine with me.


Isn't Inue's lines more like:
The same goes for you.(watch it or we'll use you too)
Don't presume I don't know about "power". (arimasumai is polite presumptive isn't it? so isn't she kinda saying "you know what I can do with my power")-boy that's akward phrasing
Would it be alright to make "meat" of nothing but sheer strength? ( unlike red feather power your power is just your muscles but I can make that "meat" too)
So isn't she kinda calling anyone she controls with her power "meat" right here? She thought she was going to control him with her power and says she will make him "meat".
Originally the people brought to Nagi were called "spare ribs", then Inue refered to them as "game cocks", then it was Madoka (in chap 79) who called all the Todou students "meat", which is what Souhaku called them...so...ehh now that I reread it I guess even here she is threatening to make Mitsuomi "meat" for Nagi. Well I guess I just did all that to make your argument more convincing :oops: Oh well it was fun parcticing my translation skills anyway. :wink: And of course if this translation is right, it means he's wants to use Nagi to beat Mitsuomi...hmmm isn't that what Maya wants to do too? Does this mean a Maya Souhaku team-up :shock: ....ehh probably not :wink:
Well, I think my translation is pretty good - I also have notes about both of those lines. It is all open for interpretation though, which is one of the reasons I put up the Japanese text as well.

Anyway, "arimasumai" is just a negative form of arimasu, but Inue consistently uses forms of kobun, older literary Japanese, which is what that is from. I don't know kobun well at all though - I only know the basics (the stuff that is likely to show up in manga.) I don't think it has anything to do with a presumptive, unless you are reading into Inue's haughty character.

Also, isn't this discussion about chapter 81?
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MrProphet
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Post by MrProphet »

Evil_Genius released Fight 81 and 82 today.

Basically, they took Fugu's translation and applied it to the images.

The edit job is just great. Amazing imaging work. Very professional. The translation.. well, we've already seen it and it's good. (I just wish things like "ideaology" didn't show up :? )

All in all, a nice job and I am actually glad that Fugu let them use his translation. Pairing up talents is good.
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FuguTabetai
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Post by FuguTabetai »

MrProphet wrote:(I just wish things like "ideaology" didn't show up)
Hm, that is my mistake. I misspelled it once, but did get it right the other time it appeared in that volume.
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