Fight 84

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Post by MrProphet » Thu May 26, 2005 9:16 pm

You think incorrectly.
Nagi Makiko: Kago Souhaku ... And Kagiroi Tetsuhito ... I know all about them ... I'll tell you ...

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Post by FuguTabetai » Thu May 26, 2005 10:16 pm

MrProphet wrote: First she says Maya CAN'T fight Kagiroi. Then she says she'll train Maya so she CAN fight Kagiroi. Finally, she says that Maya WON'T be able to fight Kagiroi. All in one sentence.

Now, either the old girl is growing senile, or Fugu's translation is awkward somehow...
Nagi Makiko: I'm positive that you won't be able to fight them.
Nagi Makiko: I'll tell you these words... so that some day you will be able to fight with them.
Nagi Makiko: Maya-san. You and them... will not even be able to fight.
Ok, I should try to clear this up. It is a little confusing even to me. The first bubble:
you should not fight them
She says them, I think she means Souhaku and Tetsuhito together. Also, it could be "should not" (I'm leaning towards that now) althought it could also be "must not". I'm just not clear enough on the story to know what makes sense. It can be hard to pick the exact nuance sometimes.

The second bubble is right (basically) I'm telling you this so that you will some day be able to fight them. Actually, it might even be more exactly "so you can start to be able to fight them".

The third bubble is "Maya- san... The one thing that you can't do is fight them" (I think she means right now without knowing what Makiko is about to tell her.)

But again, my interpretation might change depending on what comes later. I kind of think that Maya would even fight Tetsuhito even though Makiko told her not to...
I mean... what the hell is she talking about?![/quote]

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Post by kk1 » Fri May 27, 2005 12:07 pm

What's with the antique gun at Tetsuhito's "birth"? Is this implying Tetsuhito was "born" (sheesh that was gross...leave it to Oh! Great to think of new and unique ways to disgust me) when such guns were used? Are him and Souhaku really old? Maybe something to do with Souhaku's power, or am I just reading too much into this and OG just wanted to draw an old gun.
BTW it appears to be a matchlock, which appear to have only been popularly used in India and Japan until the 1800's(the pistols anyway
), so it could be anytime between @1600 and @1853 when Perry introduced modern firearms if it's supposed to be a current weapon. Of course Souhaku could also just be an antique collector and used it 20 years ago, just wanted to toss that out there though.

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Post by EliteF22 » Fri May 27, 2005 12:38 pm

Hasn't he shown an antique weapon similar to that before? I believe it was a two page spread with Maya leaning on a bike. She's holding an old musket that's sawed-off. That's smart. The recoil would break a person's wrist. Guess OG just likes old weapons.

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Post by kk1 » Fri May 27, 2005 1:27 pm

EliteF22 wrote:Hasn't he shown an antique weapon similar to that before? I believe it was a two page spread with Maya leaning on a bike. She's holding an old musket that's sawed-off. That's smart. The recoil would break a person's wrist. Guess OG just likes old weapons.
Well it is an old matchlock rifle (not sawed off though) but that's just a splash page, this is actually part of the story.
While on the subject of weapons, what is Tetsuhito's sword? A chinese dadao or is it just a made up weapon?

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Post by MrProphet » Fri May 27, 2005 6:44 pm

Kago is a wealthy, old-fashioned man. If he wants to use an old pistol, that's his thing...

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Post by Natsume Maya » Fri May 27, 2005 6:49 pm

FuguTabetai wrote:
MrProphet wrote: First she says Maya CAN'T fight Kagiroi. Then she says she'll train Maya so she CAN fight Kagiroi. Finally, she says that Maya WON'T be able to fight Kagiroi. All in one sentence.

Now, either the old girl is growing senile, or Fugu's translation is awkward somehow...
Nagi Makiko: I'm positive that you won't be able to fight them.
Nagi Makiko: I'll tell you these words... so that some day you will be able to fight with them.
Nagi Makiko: Maya-san. You and them... will not even be able to fight.
Ok, I should try to clear this up. It is a little confusing even to me. The first bubble:
you should not fight them
She says them, I think she means Souhaku and Tetsuhito together. Also, it could be "should not" (I'm leaning towards that now) althought it could also be "must not". I'm just not clear enough on the story to know what makes sense. It can be hard to pick the exact nuance sometimes.

The second bubble is right (basically) I'm telling you this so that you will some day be able to fight them. Actually, it might even be more exactly "so you can start to be able to fight them".

The third bubble is "Maya- san... The one thing that you can't do is fight them" (I think she means right now without knowing what Makiko is about to tell her.)

But again, my interpretation might change depending on what comes later. I kind of think that Maya would even fight Tetsuhito even though Makiko told her not to...
I read that page this way:

---

Kago Souhaku... and Kagiroi Tetsuhito...
Everything that I know about them... I will tell you...

But
you must never fight them.

I'll tell you so that you can pass on my words to those who can fight them some day.
Maya-san, if you were to fight them... it would not even be a contest.

---

I'm not certain of the last line, and I've translated it loosely. More literally, I read it as "With you and them... it would not even be a fight".

So what I get from that part of the chapter is that Maya is going up against Tetsuhito even though Makiko has told her she should never try to fight him - he's too strong for her. Makiko tells Maya to pass on the info about Souhaku and Tetsuhito to those who are stronger than her, but Maya instead was basically saying to Mitsuomi and Nagi 'When I was in Kyushuu Makiko told me about Tetsuhito so only I know how to defeat him, so I'm the best person to fight him'.

That's how I understand things, anyway.
Last edited by Natsume Maya on Fri May 27, 2005 10:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by Natsume Maya » Fri May 27, 2005 10:04 pm

Clicked the wrong button trying to edit my previous post :P
Natsume Danjou Maya.
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Post by EliteF22 » Fri May 27, 2005 10:35 pm

Nice translation Natsume Maya. I now I sorta get it.

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Post by kidneo66 » Sat May 28, 2005 3:22 am

i couldn't view the pages, it tells me that it's forbidden.

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Post by MrProphet » Sat May 28, 2005 3:25 am

Works fine for me.

You sure you are accessing http://fugu.cs.columbia.edu/tjtg/TJTG_14_Trans.html ?

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Post by Isuzu » Sat May 28, 2005 9:20 am

Hmmm... this is getting confusing somehow.

So Makiko told Maya not to fight Tetsuhito as he is too strong for her, and Tetsuhito tells Maya that he's only there to distract her (and Reiki) from attacking Souhaku, as Reiki seems to be quite threatening to Souhaku...

Strange. oO


But... doesn't Reiki only activate when Aya uses it? So, don't they need Aya to finish off Souhaku, as she's the only one who could put that sword back into action?

Mhmh. Quite complicated, I'm curious on how things will go on.
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Post by FuguTabetai » Sat May 28, 2005 10:17 am

Natsume Maya, thanks for your translation. That is much, much better. I've updated mine.

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Post by EliteF22 » Sat May 28, 2005 5:14 pm

You forget about that one time Reiki activated because of Souichirou, when he was beating the sh!t out of Mataza. It seems that Reiki senses for the most powerful Red feather. That would explain why it activated for Aya before. Souichirou hadn't yet opened his gate all the way.

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Post by Hariel0079 » Sat May 28, 2005 5:20 pm

EliteF22 wrote:You forget about that one time Reiki activated because of Souichirou, when he was beating the sh!t out of Mataza. It seems that Reiki senses for the most powerful Red feather. That would explain why it activated for Aya before. Souichirou hadn't yet opened his gate all the way.
I remeber the fight with Mataza but I thought it activated insinc with Aya's Dragons Eye.

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Post by EliteF22 » Sat May 28, 2005 5:49 pm

Look at the chapter again. It activates when Souichirou goes nuts.

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Post by kk1 » Sat May 28, 2005 10:50 pm

EliteF22 wrote:Look at the chapter again. It activates when Souichirou goes nuts.
]
Reiki reacts differently to everyone who touches it, it reacts to the "power" of the user, which is why Maya was given it no power no reaction. In Aya's "dream" Shin told her that it will suck all the power out of you and make you face that power. He then asks if she thinks she can win against it, when she says yes he relies that he didn't win and she has just sealed her own fate.
Souhaku's power must be adversly affected by Reiki, I doubt we can specualte further until Oh! Great reveals what that power is...though that never stopped me before, so here goes Souhaku's power keeps him young and Reiki will make him(and Tetsuhito) revert to his actual age which is really old. Though that's probably completely wrong :wink:

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Post by Agent_Wax » Sun May 29, 2005 5:10 am

What's the point here? We already know that Kago is weird and does horrible stuff. What is the point of showing this kind of disgusting imagery?

Wanton and gratuitous, if you ask me.
Didn't bother me. But then I'm sick. :twisted: Perhaps Great is just trying to hint at Kago's power by showing the devastating effect of the Kago Dragon Gate. This foreshadowing might make the actual revelation later more tense and nail-biting.

What's with the antique gun at Tetsuhito's "birth"? Is this implying Tetsuhito was "born" (sheesh that was gross...leave it to Oh! Great to think of new and unique ways to disgust me) when such guns were used? Are him and Souhaku really old? Maybe something to do with Souhaku's power, or am I just reading too much into this and OG just wanted to draw an old gun.
The antique gun probably did not belong to Souhaku. Has everyone forgotten what the Kagirois specialise in? But yeah, those things look cool and he probably just wanted to draw one in.

While on the subject of weapons, what is Tetsuhito's sword? A chinese dadao or is it just a made up weapon?
That's no broadsword. It's just a Japanese-influenced machete, with a spur for splitting coconuts on those hot, hot summer days.


Tetsuhito's mines are a pretty cowardly way to fight. But then I think all mines are cowardly.

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Post by Asunder » Sun May 29, 2005 11:18 am

I know someone brought up the idea that Souhaku was being controlled by his dragon (EDIT: EliteF22 deserves the credit). Perhaps the dragon is keeping Souhaku down and the presence of Reiki would draw Souhaku back to the point where he could reassert control over his dragon.

That is, of course, assuming that the "dragons" Oh! Great refers to actually have personality and aren't just metaphors for sources of power. Then again, Nagi's leg was being pulled down by what appeared to be a dragon when he was fighting Ishiyumi.
Last edited by Asunder on Sun May 29, 2005 9:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by EliteF22 » Sun May 29, 2005 4:08 pm

Ho ho, someone actually remembered that. I typed that awhile ago. Now, we have even more evidence to support that. Aya's dragon certainly seemed to have a personality of its own. It was even asking Aya why she liked Souichirou. Hmm, maybe it knows something we don't.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Sun May 29, 2005 9:23 pm

Honestly, I think that would just be cheap writing. "The Devil made me do it!" ranks right up there along with "And then I woke up." in my list of lamest plot devices.

Aya's dragon was just her unconscious psyche given shape and form, like a kind of astral projection. Soichirou's leg didn't necessarily have to be pulled down. It can just be a metaphor.

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Post by kk1 » Wed Jun 01, 2005 11:24 pm

Nice chapter , thanks for the translation Fu...er Doc. Man all of F are a bunch of punks they almost all have powers and still use cheap tricks. Interesting, so that's what Kagiori's black markings were. Maya should still win if Maya loses because of some supid little mines I'll be very dissapointed, can't wait for the main battle.

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Post by MrProphet » Thu Jun 02, 2005 12:38 am

Her fight with Kagiroi is strangely similar to her with with Isuzu.

Yet again the opponent uses long-range attacks. And yet again Maya studies her opponent and tries to defeat him/her by exploiting the opponent's weaknesses, and not by brute strenght or special powers.

As long as she is able to "read" Kagiroi's attacks the way she read Isuzu's shadow kunai thing, she can surely win.

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Post by Hariel0079 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 8:29 am

One thing that Maya mentioned during the fight with Kagiroi that he had multiple dragon gates from different families of the red feathers. With that said and Nagi is able to take other peoples dragon's away I think Maya is going to lose the fight and Nagi will come in and take Kagiroi's dragons away.

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Post by kk1 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:20 am

MrProphet wrote:Her fight with Kagiroi is strangely similar to her with with Isuzu.

Yet again the opponent uses long-range attacks. And yet again Maya studies her opponent and tries to defeat him/her by exploiting the opponent's weaknesses, and not by brute strenght or special powers.

As long as she is able to "read" Kagiroi's attacks the way she read Isuzu's shadow kunai thing, she can surely win.
Really? Doesn't seem that way to me. Maya used pure brute strength to kick Emi's butt, I'm hoping that it turns out the same in that even with using a trick Maya didn't know about (the 2nd shadow blade) she'll still win. And long range? They were fighting in a bathroom, I wouldn't categorize that as "long"-range. And Tetsuhito's mines seem pretty short range to me.

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Post by Asunder » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:27 am

Hariel0079 wrote:One thing that Maya mentioned during the fight with Kagiroi that he had multiple dragon gates from different families of the red feathers. With that said and Nagi is able to take other peoples dragon's away I think Maya is going to lose the fight and Nagi will come in and take Kagiroi's dragons away.
Yep, so he'll become a walking deus ex machina. Well, we already don't know how many dragons Nagi has eaten, so any one of them could be pretty powerful after he "perverts" it to his purpose.

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Post by Hariel0079 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:22 am

Asunder wrote:
Hariel0079 wrote:One thing that Maya mentioned during the fight with Kagiroi that he had multiple dragon gates from different families of the red feathers. With that said and Nagi is able to take other peoples dragon's away I think Maya is going to lose the fight and Nagi will come in and take Kagiroi's dragons away.
Yep, so he'll become a walking deus ex machina. Well, we already don't know how many dragons Nagi has eaten, so any one of them could be pretty powerful after he "perverts" it to his purpose.

from the scantalations I've read I thought Nagi only ate one which is Ishiyumi Tessen which allows Nagi to use the water bullets as well. Including his own earth dragon gate and Tessen which he ate that would make 2 dragons Nagi has in total, unless i'm mistaken or i've read wrong.

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Post by EliteF22 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 2:10 pm

He also ate Shidzuru's wind dragon. No telling if Souhaku fed him any others, but Inue did imply that they did. Now we know he can in fact eat the eighth gates of our red feather families, seeing as how Tetsuhito has those red feather branch family gates. I'm also pretty sure that he ate Mataza's gate. Why else would Oh! Great go through the extra process of drawing a dragon eating Mataza's arm unless it was to show Souichirou eating his gate?

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Post by Hariel0079 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 4:29 pm

Sorry but I only read the scantalations and I only have ch. 83 and 84 torrents.

Any chapters/vols. of past events I only read didn't see. So I obviously wouldn't know anything else to what I've read.

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Post by zangetsu » Sat Jun 04, 2005 1:56 pm

kk1 wrote:Nice chapter , thanks for the translation Fu...er Doc. Man all of F are a bunch of punks.
Yeah, Tetsuhito isn't disapointing me as much as Kabuto or the tongue girl, but he's still looking pretty sorry right now. 'seems like the only one who could carry thier weight was Ishyumi.
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Post by maximilianjenus » Tue Jun 07, 2005 11:46 pm

Maya is going to get raped by tetsuhito.

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Post by Dembol » Wed Jun 08, 2005 5:53 am

zangetsu wrote:
kk1 wrote:Nice chapter , thanks for the translation Fu...er Doc. Man all of F are a bunch of punks.
Yeah, Tetsuhito isn't disapointing me as much as Kabuto or the tongue girl, but he's still looking pretty sorry right now. 'seems like the only one who could carry thier weight was Ishyumi.
Actually apart from Mataza, Ishiyumi and Madoka whose fights were actually cool the others F members suck so much. I hope that the next chapter with Maya/Tetsuhito fight will prove me wrong, but it seems that Oh!Great is running of cool ideas :/

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Post by kk1 » Wed Jun 08, 2005 10:39 am

Dembol wrote:
zangetsu wrote:
kk1 wrote:Nice chapter , thanks for the translation Fu...er Doc. Man all of F are a bunch of punks.
Yeah, Tetsuhito isn't disapointing me as much as Kabuto or the tongue girl, but he's still looking pretty sorry right now. 'seems like the only one who could carry thier weight was Ishyumi.
Actually apart from Mataza, Ishiyumi and Madoka whose fights were actually cool the others F members suck so much. I hope that the next chapter with Maya/Tetsuhito fight will prove me wrong, but it seems that Oh!Great is running of cool ideas :/
Oh I don't think so, this fight has been cool and whats his name wasn't a fighter anyway, it's just dissapointing seeing someone with all those dragon gates doing something so lame, though from the last page I have high hopes for this next chapter.

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Post by kujoe » Thu Jun 09, 2005 9:54 am

Well, most of the F members so far have used some sort modified equipment--some being more direct than others.

Mataza with his mechanical arms, Madoka with her sword whip and energy blades and Kagiroi with his own stuff. Even Ishiyumi had those things for his arms to enhance the power and force of his arms.

Kabuto on the other hand was simply meat.

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Post by kk1 » Thu Jun 09, 2005 10:31 am

kujoe wrote:Well, most of the F members so far have used some sort modified equipment--some being more direct than others.

Mataza with his mechanical arms, Madoka with her sword whip and energy blades and Kagiroi with his own stuff. Even Ishiyumi had those things for his arms to enhance the power and force of his arms.

Kabuto on the other hand was simply meat.
Yeah but compared to Tetsuhito, they have very little extra ordinary abilities. Why would someone with all the powers Tetsuhito has, who obviously thinks he's pretty strong, even think he needs something "extra" in a fight? I can only assume he's actually afraid of one of the 3 people he was about to fight, but who? The comment about him and Souhaku being afraid of Reiki leads me to believe it is Maya and that's the real reason he attacked her first, not because as he said that she is the weakest. Which of course makes Maya even cooler than she already is 8)
One other thought on this chapter, with the rest of the Jyuukenbu and Enforcement Group gathered together, I can see Aya looking into the future at Souhaku's mansion seeing her sister and Souichiro there and leading the "cavalry" there to help out.

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Post by kujoe » Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:16 am

Yeah, I understand what you mean--but it's F.

I kind of expected it, though I admit as far as Kagiroi is concerned it does seem lamer. F seems to have no qualms about "cheating" that's for sure.

On another note, this fight makes me miss the formulaic fight scenes that TT used to have. You know--some cool poses, featuring the "special move/red feather power of the day" type of fights with more emphasis on contact and the exchange of blows. In other words, the usual manga fight.

The recent fights so far within Souhaku's realm seem to be rushed. Forged Needles here, Kagiroi doing this and that... I don't know. It's just different from usual. Well, they were short compared to some of the previous ones, but still...

I guess the author is focusing more on exposition in the meantime.

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Post by Hariel0079 » Thu Jun 09, 2005 1:25 pm

Or maybe the author wants the final battle with Shohaku to be grand, something that makes the reader ( :shock: )

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Post by MrProphet » Thu Jun 09, 2005 3:20 pm

kujoe wrote:Well, most of the F members so far have used some sort modified equipment--some being more direct than others.

Mataza with his mechanical arms, Madoka with her sword whip and energy blades and Kagiroi with his own stuff. Even Ishiyumi had those things for his arms to enhance the power and force of his arms.

Kabuto on the other hand was simply meat.
Actually, it was the other way around. Ishiyumi's "things" repressed his muscle power, not amplified it.

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Post by Asunder » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:38 am

I wonder if Kabuto even had a Dragon. Maybe he was like Maya in that he didn't have a special power or something.

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jun 10, 2005 11:49 am

Asunder wrote:I wonder if Kabuto even had a Dragon. Maybe he was like Maya in that he didn't have a special power or something.
Probably not, or else they probably would have shown it.

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