CMX TT Online Edit List

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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CMX TT Online Edit List

Post by Agent_Wax » Thu Jun 02, 2005 9:37 pm

http://digitalsin.bebopboard.net/index2.html

Really. What are they hoping to achieve with this?
Why doesn't everyone just boycott it and let it die? :?

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Post by MrProphet » Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:01 pm

Because there is an audience there who knows jack about manga and cares nothing about Oh!Great or Tenjou Tenge, but likes to have some titillating comic about fights and boobs.

However, since most of that audience is teenage boys, CMX gladly obliges to sanitize the hell out of everything in the mindless fear of their puritanical 'soccer moms'.

Hypocricy at its best...

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Post by Hariel0079 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 10:09 pm

so um... Vol.2 is out I take it?

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Post by kk1 » Thu Jun 02, 2005 11:13 pm

That's hilarious, the one edit of Aya and Chiaki in the hot tub has the water over Chiaki's breasts higher than Aya's head. :lol:

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Post by Agent_Wax » Fri Jun 03, 2005 12:49 am

Because there is an audience there who knows jack about manga and cares nothing about Oh!Great or Tenjou Tenge, but likes to have some titillating comic about fights and boobs.

However, since most of that audience is teenage boys, CMX gladly obliges to sanitize the hell out of everything in the mindless fear of their puritanical 'soccer moms'.

Hypocricy at its best...
Umm... I meant why are they still bothering with petitions and websites like that? It's not like CMX is likely to reverse its decision. It's possible, I guess, but the odds of them releasing an uncut TT are still smaller than the odds of my scoring a 1 nighter with Salma Hayek...

Let's just boycott them if we must, but move on already.

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Post by thedigitalsin » Fri Jun 03, 2005 1:09 am

Agent_Wax wrote:
Because there is an audience there who knows jack about manga and cares nothing about Oh!Great or Tenjou Tenge, but likes to have some titillating comic about fights and boobs.

However, since most of that audience is teenage boys, CMX gladly obliges to sanitize the hell out of everything in the mindless fear of their puritanical 'soccer moms'.

Hypocricy at its best...
Umm... I meant why are they still bothering with petitions and websites like that? It's not like CMX is likely to reverse its decision. It's possible, I guess, but the odds of them releasing an uncut TT are still smaller than the odds of my scoring a 1 nighter with Salma Hayek...

Let's just boycott them if we must, but move on already.
The site is there as a guide to see what has been edited. There are in fact people still buying the product who don't know the thing is being censored. I'm simply doing what I can to let people know it's censored, and if they wish, to get the word out about edits. While I do ask that people boycott the release, I'm also aware that people can spend money however they choose.

Do I expect things to change with my site? Not at all, otherwise somebody would have done something to rectify the problem. The fact that Volume 3 has been recently been confirmed as edited proves that. The bottom line is going to be sales, and if sales from Volume 2 onward are poor, I suspect CMX will simply stop putting out TenTen period, and just sit on the license until their contract expires. Kinda sucks.

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:18 am

Agent_Wax wrote:Let's just boycott them if we must, but move on already.
While I fully agree that petitions never work, I don't think the purpose of the website is to petition CMX to change their "evil ways".

The way I see it, it is a good informational website.

Personally, I think that CMX is not going to 1) stop censoring TJTG, 2) release an uncensored version some time in the future.

However, if it is possible to send CMX a message that censoring will lead to loss in revenue, then I shall be content. I don't particularily care if they correct their mistakes. As long as they and their colleagues in the industry see the consequences (if there are any indeed).

It will be years before their license expires, so don't really get your hopes up. Untill then Tenjou Tenge will be another failed project. What can you do? Life's tough, and it's just another manga.

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Post by kidneo66 » Fri Jun 03, 2005 4:53 am

Why doesn't some one just buy the right to the book and do it the right way, if there are enough people who want it, someone else could pick it up. If I had the money I'd do it, and pay Fugu to translate, and sell it. At the rate it's going it'll die any way, hell if nothing else, (i say this in hopes that someone from Dark Horse is listening), get some OTHER company, WHO LOVES THEIR FANS, to PURCHASE, the rights for the book, AND PRINT IT IN THE WAY IT WAS INTENED TO BE, but alas a great series has to die a horrid death at the hands of Super man, all for the sake of mr. franklin. I see horrible things for that DVD. I really do.

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:36 am

kidneo66 wrote:Why doesn't some one just buy the right to the book and do it the right way, if there are enough people who want it, someone else could pick it up. If I had the money I'd do it, and pay Fugu to translate, and sell it. At the rate it's going it'll die any way, hell if nothing else, (i say this in hopes that someone from Dark Horse is listening), get some OTHER company, WHO LOVES THEIR FANS, to PURCHASE, the rights for the book, AND PRINT IT IN THE WAY IT WAS INTENED TO BE, but alas a great series has to die a horrid death at the hands of Super man, all for the sake of mr. franklin. I see horrible things for that DVD. I really do.
The simple answer is: DC Comics already owns the exclusive rights to distribute the manga in North America.

Other than that... well, you seem to be very, very naive regarding the amounts required to publish something in even somewhat large quantities.
Last edited by MrProphet on Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:55 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Post by Natsume Maya » Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:41 am

Agent_Wax wrote:Umm... I meant why are they still bothering with petitions and websites like that? It's not like CMX is likely to reverse its decision.
To me, there are at least three benefits to the site:
- as MrProphet wrote, it's a good informational site; a record of the changes made.
- even if it doesn't change CMX's policy, at least it will help inform the public of the edits and shame CMX.
- if CMX suffers lower sales because of the edits, hopefully it may encourage a company in some other country to license the manga for uncensored publication in English.
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Post by kidneo66 » Fri Jun 03, 2005 5:47 am

That's rather rude to question someones knowledge of the press, and the money that goes into it. I never claimed know the funding that goes into it, i did say that if i had the money to do it i would. Thanks for the insult, i really love it when people do that too, I don't recall claiming to know to much about it. I was an alternate solution, which as you have so graciously informed us all is not the case. Heaven forbid someone offer a solution, all you had to say to that was "The simple answer is: DC Comics already owns the exclusive rights to distribute the manga in North America." Thanx alot proffessionalism is through the roof on that one mate. Claps to you mate. Claps to you.

I agree with Natsume that information is an integral key in this whole thing, but DC isn't one to listen until it's almost too late, a great example of this is Batman himself, they mess him up so much it took one man to drag them out of the pit of hell to get something right, ofcourse i'm speaking of frank miller, but this isn't the story of batman we're reading, this is Nagi, Bob, Aya, Maya, not Bruce Wayne, Dick Grayson, Com. Gordan, Alfred, and DC needs to understand they're dealing with a whole new batch of fans, fans that don't dig censourship, and don't take it too lightly when adult comics are edited for children under 17-18.

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Jun 03, 2005 6:51 am

The way you phrased it lead me to believe you expect Santa to come down and present you with the uncensored version of Tenjou Tenge. By magic. Without any thought of the resourses and efforts and that go into aquiring rights to a publication and actually publishing it.

Rather than getting insulted, you should have perhaps been more realistic. Daydreams are well and good... But there is no Santa in real world. 8)

As far as I know, TJTG is being published in Japan, USA, Hong Kong, France and Germany. Only way we'd get an alternative version is if, say, a Brittish publisher aquired the rights. Which I rather doubt, since UK is not a really big manga/anime market, compared to France or USA.

Other than that, I can't see anybody doing it. It would just be a waste of money for any other publisher. Unless they have demand in their home market, they will not publish it just for overseas fans. No feasible...

Although, Australia remains somewhat of a "maybe"... Natsume, how are things doing there in terms of domestic anime/manga sales? I've heard some news about something called Madman Inc., but I'm not really in the know...

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Post by Asunder » Fri Jun 03, 2005 8:37 am

MrProphet wrote:But there is no Santa in real world. 8)
You just crushed my world. :cry:

*runs away* "Noooooooo!"

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Post by kidneo66 » Fri Jun 03, 2005 2:15 pm

*clap clap* are you done with the snide remarks yet. seriously those really aren't necessary. they're actually quite childish.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Fri Jun 03, 2005 11:21 pm

- as MrProphet wrote, it's a good informational site; a record of the changes made.
- even if it doesn't change CMX's policy, at least it will help inform the public of the edits and shame CMX.
I stand corrected.

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Post by MrProphet » Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:06 am

kidneo66 wrote:*clap clap* are you done with the snide remarks yet. seriously those really aren't necessary. they're actually quite childish.
What I find childish here is you and your vain attempts at having 'the last word' when in reality you have nothing constructive to say on the matter...

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Post by Isuzu » Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:54 am

I somehow pity you poor Americans... you seem to live in a Third World Country where free press does not exist and censorship is allowed, even enforced by some certain groups who don't have enough brain (I'm speaking about those people who sue TV-networks because of 'Nipplegate', forcing them to abolish live-TV). Too bad. oO

This is just ridiculous. I mean... hey, countries where religious fanatics have *that* much to say usually get bombed by the US, while in the US, the religious fanatics do their best to destroy liberal achievements. I just don't get it.

In my opinion, that site is quite necessary. Violence seems to be quite okay with CMX, it's just nudity of which they are afraid of. Nude people aren't dangerous. Violent people are. Guns are dangerous, too. Where is the logic of cutting out scenes that contain nudity? Every human being enters the world naked. Every human being enters the world through his mother's sexual organ. Everybody who sees nudity as threatening should just jump off the next bridge, as he seems to be afraid of something that is totally normal and *human*. oO
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Post by Vampire Advent » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:36 am

Man after seeing the edits for the first 2 volumes I can say i won't be buying the us version. Why can't the edits be more like xenosaga now those were good edits.

a little off topic but im new here and to tenjo tenge and I heard good things about it but evidently the us version is one thing i cannot rely on for the best experience of this manga.

Also hello everyone I hope to get know you guys well.

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Post by kidneo66 » Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:16 pm

My money stopped at number one. I do not plan on spending anymore money on CMX, I'll import it. If i'm to support OG, it'll be through other means, and not throught DC.

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Post by Vampire Advent » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:02 am

Isuzu wrote:I somehow pity you poor Americans... you seem to live in a Third World Country where free press does not exist and censorship is allowed, even enforced by some certain groups who don't have enough brain (I'm speaking about those people who sue TV-networks because of 'Nipplegate', forcing them to abolish live-TV). Too bad. oO

This is just ridiculous. I mean... hey, countries where religious fanatics have *that* much to say usually get bombed by the US, while in the US, the religious fanatics do their best to destroy liberal achievements. I just don't get it.

In my opinion, that site is quite necessary. Violence seems to be quite okay with CMX, it's just nudity of which they are afraid of. Nude people aren't dangerous. Violent people are. Guns are dangerous, too. Where is the logic of cutting out scenes that contain nudity? Every human being enters the world naked. Every human being enters the world through his mother's sexual organ. Everybody who sees nudity as threatening should just jump off the next bridge, as he seems to be afraid of something that is totally normal and *human*. oO
Im in that same boat too Isuzu. I dunno why america is like that.

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Post by Dembol » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:05 am

It's the damn Puritan roots or something. These guys were quite religious and their beliefs still are strong in the country. I don't exactly remember what's it about, but my English teacher (he was American) once explained to us why it's like that when we asked him sth about Eminem or Limp Bizkit.

Now most of the censorship is pure hipocrisy. People blame modern popculture for their kids going bad and they censor stuff so they can leave their kid in front of the tv to chase money in the rat race (which is going at a higher pace in the US).

If you brought up your kids to be good then violent movies, rap music, porn, manga and gore hentai (yuck!) shouldn't make'em do bad stuff. I'm the best example. I've seen countless amounts of sick/weird stuff. (becoming almost addicted to Mortal Kombat 2 when I was like 12 was cool). I never murdered/raped anyone and haven't heard of my friends (who are equally screwed up) do that...

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Post by MetalGravy » Sun Jun 05, 2005 11:36 am

I think another part of it is that parents are unwilling to accept that their children are capable of such acts, so they assume that the desire to do so must've come from some external source (i.e. the "devil made me do it" mentality).

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Post by kk1 » Sun Jun 05, 2005 3:50 pm

MetalGravy wrote:I think another part of it is that parents are unwilling to accept that their children are capable of such acts, so they assume that the desire to do so must've come from some external source (i.e. the "devil made me do it" mentality).
More like they don't want to take the blame for their own poor parenting job, the South Park movie captured this brilliantly..."Blame Canada..."

and yes America is screwed up because of its Puritanical roots, I just heard of a women being asked to leave a Wal-Mart for breast feeding or something like that. Hiding whats natural and normal and then having objectified portrayals of breasts all over the store, the hypocrisy is unfortunately all too typical.

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Post by Shinpachi » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:11 pm

Yeah I always thought it was so funnily hypocritical that you can get condoms or other forms of contraceptives at any age, really easily and legally, but you can't get a mature magazine or video until you're 18. The majority of monotheists in this country are just so afraid of any sort of 'immoral' materials, and if you say it isn't the majority then how come the majority isn't squashing that stupid minority? Thank Jebus for the internet.

(After reading the edits) HAHAHA, they actually went so far as to remove Nagi's middle finger?! That's just insane.

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Post by MetalGravy » Sun Jun 05, 2005 8:45 pm

kk1 wrote:
MetalGravy wrote:I think another part of it is that parents are unwilling to accept that their children are capable of such acts, so they assume that the desire to do so must've come from some external source (i.e. the "devil made me do it" mentality).
More like they don't want to take the blame for their own poor parenting job, the South Park movie captured this brilliantly..."Blame Canada..."
.
.
.

Right, because allowing for their child to be wholly responsible for their violent/antisocial/whatever actions brings into question whether or not they did their job as a parent and installed a proper moral (I'm cringing when I use that word, BTW, it reminds me of all those idiotic Bible-thumpers that voted for W based on his religion--rather than his ability) base. Rather than admit failure, they just pass the blame on to something that they (and many other parents) don't like and can easily demonize.

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Post by Vampire Advent » Mon Jun 06, 2005 4:36 pm

MetalGravy wrote:
kk1 wrote:
MetalGravy wrote:I think another part of it is that parents are unwilling to accept that their children are capable of such acts, so they assume that the desire to do so must've come from some external source (i.e. the "devil made me do it" mentality).
More like they don't want to take the blame for their own poor parenting job, the South Park movie captured this brilliantly..."Blame Canada..."
.
.
.

Right, because allowing for their child to be wholly responsible for their violent/antisocial/whatever actions brings into question whether or not they did their job as a parent and installed a proper moral (I'm cringing when I use that word, BTW, it reminds me of all those idiotic Bible-thumpers that voted for W based on his religion--rather than his ability) base. Rather than admit failure, they just pass the blame on to something that they (and many other parents) don't like and can easily demonize.
agreed. what is happening to some game companies is proof especially the amount of money the parents want when they sue companies for what there children do its ridiculous.

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Post by Natsume Maya » Tue Jun 07, 2005 12:25 am

MrProphet wrote:As far as I know, TJTG is being published in Japan, USA, Hong Kong, France and Germany. Only way we'd get an alternative version is if, say, a Brittish publisher aquired the rights. Which I rather doubt, since UK is not a really big manga/anime market, compared to France or USA.

Other than that, I can't see anybody doing it. It would just be a waste of money for any other publisher. Unless they have demand in their home market, they will not publish it just for overseas fans. No feasible...

Although, Australia remains somewhat of a "maybe"... Natsume, how are things doing there in terms of domestic anime/manga sales? I've heard some news about something called Madman Inc., but I'm not really in the know...
Madman would be doing well, I assume, but they've only started their manga line relatively recently, and that's in cooperation with some company in Singapore, I think.

Although I agree companies generally won't publish with an overseas market in mind, I'm hoping something like Tenjou Tenge may be the exception. The Australian market is relatively small, while the US market is large. Add in the problems and publicity with censorship of the US version, and I'm hoping Madman may decide to publish it uncensored in future.

However, when I emailed them a few months back, the response I got back was licensing the TenTen manga was not currently under consideration by Madman. At least they didn't reject the idea outright...
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CMX and the Damned U.S.

Post by LostSoul » Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:24 pm

First off I'm an American and I hate the way our society is structured. I know that this thread is a few weeks old but all I can say is no matter how much you hate the fact that CMX destroyed TjTg nothing will change it.

1) as others have said they hold the license on it
2) Americans tend to religous fanatics who think that everything is bad

3) THIS ONE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT AND MAKES THE WHOLE ARGUEMENT POINTLESS, THE LEGAL AGE OF CONSENT THAT IS RECOGNIZED BY THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT IS 18. AS SEVERAL OF THE CHARACTERS IN TENJO TENGE ARE UNDER 18, SHOWING THEM NUDE EVEN THOUGH THEY ARE NOT REAL PICTURES, WOULD BE VIEWED BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT AS CHILD PORNOGRAPHY. THE SCREWED UP RELIGIOUS FOOLS WHO RUN THE GOVERNMENT DON'T DISTINGUISH ANY DIFFERENCE IN DRAWN REPRESENTIONS AND REAL PICTURES IT WOULD BE VOILATING FEDERAL LAW AND THE PUBLISHERS WOULD FIND THEMSELVES IN JAIL.

I don't know why they made such a big deal about the panty shots but once agian it probably has to do with how insanely prudish mainstream america. Furthermore as I refuse to buy the CMX releases, after I had downloaded the translations form here a while ago, it really doesn't concern me. I've been importing copies of the japanese version anyway, it gives me an excuse to practice and learn more japanese.

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Jun 24, 2005 7:55 pm

Number 3 is actually NOT CORRECT.

"Virtual childporn" is not illegal in the United States.

Acts that look like they are "simulating" sexual activty, even if the participant look like they are under 18, are not childporn.

Or else, a director of a film with a scene with actors who display sex between minors can be convicted as childpornographer.

U.S. Supreme Court has reviewed this and has struck down "virtual porn" illegality.

http://archives.cnn.com/2002/LAW/04/16/ ... index.html

PS Interestingly enough, they are trying to outlaw hentai with minors in Japan. Still not successful though.

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Post by LostSoul » Fri Jun 24, 2005 8:10 pm

Thanks for the correction, I didn't realize that they had struck it down. I just remember a year or so ago, that people were trying to push the issue on the news.

Part of the problem is also the difference in cultural standards as we americans for some reason believe that we know what is correct in the world and that we should tell people what to do all the time. For instance all the lawsuits agianst scandinavian countries to turn over their citizens for posting picture of 17 year olds on the internet as we consider it to be child porn yet it is legal under their countries laws. American is doing nothing but showing how ignorant we are.

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Post by Vampire Advent » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:54 pm

LostSoul wrote:Thanks for the correction, I didn't realize that they had struck it down. I just remember a year or so ago, that people were trying to push the issue on the news.

Part of the problem is also the difference in cultural standards as we americans for some reason believe that we know what is correct in the world and that we should tell people what to do all the time. For instance all the lawsuits agianst scandinavian countries to turn over their citizens for posting picture of 17 year olds on the internet as we consider it to be child porn yet it is legal under their countries laws. American is doing nothing but showing how ignorant we are.


The hell? They were actually suing scandinavians for posting those pics in the net even though its legal in their country? Learn some new crap about america everyday.

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Post by MrProphet » Fri Jun 24, 2005 11:38 pm

Thanks to ICANN, U.S. authorities sometimes think they own the Internet.

But, to be frank, I doubt it is as simple as LostSoul describes. 8)

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Post by Shinpachi » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:13 pm

@LostSoul: 17 year olds are legal in Scandanavia?! Score!

@MrProphet: Ah yes, the "they" you're referring to trying to outlaw child hentai in Japan is Casper right? I sure wish all the fanatic christians would just come to the US so I don't have to worry about them anywhere else.

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