Fight 86

Tenjo Tenge: Where the boys are bad, and the girls are badder.

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Post by kk1 » Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:49 pm

Vampire Advent wrote:I read the manga up to volume 12 and im confused about the dragons gate business what are they.
Just read through the discussions on past chapters here, it's been debated and theororized endlessly.

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Post by Hollowshingami » Sat Jul 23, 2005 6:12 pm

I was wondering could a person's red feather gate influence other regular dragon gates? Thus, making them unique in a sense. Or a gate could be altered when a demon exorcist takes it. An example would be when Nagi uses Ishiyumi's water dragon he uses blood. But we've only seen him uses it once so the water dragon gate could apply to any liquid substance. The only other explanation that is what MrProphet pointed out, that some families having more than one style. Hopefully, the translation will clear some of this up. :?

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Post by MrProphet » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:41 pm

Since only the Nagi clan has the ability to steal dragon gates (and thus intermigle them, as you suggest), the scope for intermingling is rather limited.

So, I don't think it's that.

A water dragon is still a water dragon, whether the user uses water bullets, blood bullets, or just unconsciously controls nature (like Aya).

A wood dragon is a wood dragon whether the user controls a twig or fiber from cloth...

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Post by lcz128 » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:03 pm

Hmm~ Could they mean that there have been 50 dragons stolen already? :S (In that not that there are 50 seperate dragons, but 50 victims who've lost their dragons to him)

We HAVE seen that there are multiple users of each type of dragon gate.. so this could be a possibly conclusion...
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Post by MrProphet » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:27 pm

Multiple users within the same family or with the same generic dragon gate. But all of the them have the same dragon.

Aya and Ishiyumi have the water dragon; Fuu and Nagi have the earth dragon; Aya and Shin have dragon eye. And so on...

However, aparently Kagiroi has 50+ distinct dragons. He didn't steal several pairs of the same dragon, that just wouldn't make ANY sense. Once you know how to open the, say, Earth Gate, you don't need to steal a second Earth Dragon.

It just wouldn't make any sense at all...

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Post by lcz128 » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:32 pm

But having so many distinct dragons doesn't make that much sense either... Weren't the dragon gates connected to chakra points throughout the body...

Also, the way Ishiyumi was talking about his water dragon, it came off to me as if it was HIS dragon that was stolen, not just the ability to access THE water dragon :\ *confused* @_@

I guess this is why it's still open for debate <_>
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Post by MrProphet » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:37 pm

The original 7 gates are all generic. That is, they are all connected to a specific chakra and are tied to a person's "personality" or "nature", if you will.

The eight gate (one for each of the 6 Red families and one for each of the 36 Brach families) is not generic, it can open through the head and you only need a correct "key combination.

All the combinations are stored in Makiko's eye. Once Kagiroi knows the code, he can open the different 8th gates.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:46 pm

There is a total of 36 branch families. And 6 Red Founding families. And 7 regular dragon gates. We know that Kagiroi didn't even get all of them (like Enmi).

So unless some families have more than one style (which was never indicated before, btw), how are we getting more than 50?
And don't forget that '36 branch families' refers to both the red and white feathers... So we can presume around 16 to 20 red feather branch families.
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Post by FuguTabetai » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:45 am

Just updating you all on my status. I've finished translating the Dogs chapter, and will start in on Tenjo Tenge next. Poor Vulgar Ghost Daydream volume 7, you never get any translation time. Maybe I just have too many projects.

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Post by Hollowshingami » Sun Jul 24, 2005 1:18 am

Thank Fugu. :D Hopefully you'll be able to clear up this 50 dragon nonsense for us.

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Post by kk1 » Sun Jul 24, 2005 3:42 am

Aya says" Ikenaiii!! No good (watch out) 50 ijo 以上 (or more, more than , above mentioned) no I (different) Nou (abilities) no "chikara" (powers) o 続制tousei shite ita (control)左 目hidarime (left eye) o 失 ushinatte (lose)..."

So roughly it's "watch out!! losing his left eye that controlled 50 or more (at least) different powers..."

体内 tainai (inside the body) no chakra to iu chakra ga暴走 bousou (run wild) shiteru!!

"the gates (chakras) inside his body are out of control!!

So I guess he did have 50 gates... that does seem like alot :?

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Post by Hariel0079 » Sun Jul 24, 2005 8:46 am

After re-reading Fight 85 (Thanks to the translations on Fugu's part) and looking over Fight 86.... It would seem Maya had mistaken her brother for her sister being you see her image next to Maya during reiki's activation and Sword within a Sword moment. I guess that's reiki's true form.


I guess shin and aya look a like when they are using the dragons eye :P but yea this was an awesome chapter.

On the subject of the gates I've could have sworn Kago had said something along the lines of Makiko having eaten 100 "demons" or dragons in past chapters which I think he's referring to mean gates.

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Post by MrProphet » Sun Jul 24, 2005 11:16 am

No, that's not it.

Kago said that his reason for living is to give birth to a "1000 demons". Makiko retorts that she will in that case kill "1500 evil spirits".

I am pretty sure they are being poetic.

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Post by kujoe » Mon Jul 25, 2005 7:00 am

MrProphet wrote:Kago said that his reason for living is to give birth to a "1000 demons". Makiko retorts that she will in that case kill "1500 evil spirits".
This sort of refers to one of the stories within Shinto myth if I'm not mistaken--so yeah, it's used poetically.

As for the number of Dragon Gates, I wonder... Since there are weaker variations of the gates from the red feather side, just how many would there be all in all? It seems like a convenient setup. Even if Oh! Great would be overdoing things, he can still easily come up with something like an nth variation of some main Dragon Gate.

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Post by Dain » Mon Jul 25, 2005 10:50 pm

kujoe wrote: As for the number of Dragon Gates, I wonder... Since there are weaker variations of the gates from the red feather side, just how many would there be all in all? It seems like a convenient setup. Even if Oh! Great would be overdoing things, he can still easily come up with something like an nth variation of some main Dragon Gate.
If I remember correctly, there are 72 (chakras,Dragon's gates...etc) in Tibetan Buddhism as well as Kundalini yoga.
The seven main chakras are the ones always mentioned and are the most important, but I can see Oh! Great using a smattering of the 72 total if it suits his purposes.
In Kundalini Yoga, after the 72 chakras are opened (the last one being the crown chakra) the practitioner attains enlightenment. Since Nagi is able to eat other's dragons, he seems to be slowly approaching that goal.

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Post by kk1 » Mon Jul 25, 2005 11:24 pm

Dain wrote:
kujoe wrote: As for the number of Dragon Gates, I wonder... Since there are weaker variations of the gates from the red feather side, just how many would there be all in all? It seems like a convenient setup. Even if Oh! Great would be overdoing things, he can still easily come up with something like an nth variation of some main Dragon Gate.
If I remember correctly, there are 72 (chakras,Dragon's gates...etc) in Tibetan Buddhism as well as Kundalini yoga.
The seven main chakras are the ones always mentioned and are the most important, but I can see Oh! Great using a smattering of the 72 total if it suits his purposes.
In Kundalini Yoga, after the 72 chakras are opened (the last one being the crown chakra) the practitioner attains enlightenment. Since Nagi is able to eat other's dragons, he seems to be slowly approaching that goal.
Hmm interesting, I wonder what Oh! Great is basing his chakras on. 72 sounds like a good number since we've already seen 3 on the hand(fist, palm,claw) and 2 on the eye(eye, pupil) alone.

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Post by Hollowshingami » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:21 am

If that's what Oh! Great is basing the gates on that sounds a little more feaseable. Makiko must have fought quite often while she was in captivity to acquire so many gates. And the fact that she was there willingly leads me to believe there is a darker side to her character. Perhaps, next chapter Souhaku will reveal something. But I'm hoping they get straight to the fight.
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Post by EliteF22 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:53 am

Man, Oh! Great's knowledge of other asian cultures seems to be quite extensive. Since the beginning, he's been throwing in references to Chinese and Buddhist stuff. If this chakra concept turns out to be true, then I really want to know if Oh! Great just researches this stuff are actually has some experience with it.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Tue Jul 26, 2005 2:00 am

Regarding the eye, it looks like it contained the actual Dragons/Powers themselves, and not the access codes as some forum members have said. The powers are not innate within each person. If they were, Tetsuhito would not lose control of them once the access codes were deleted. He would just lose the ability to open the files.
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Post by EliteF22 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 4:46 am

In the last moments of before the destruction of the eye, Tets ditched his machete and opened a gate. We were guessing before that the eye contained the knowledge of how to open/close a gate. But when you talk about opening/closing a gate, you're ultimately talking about controlling the dragon, since if the gate is closed apparently the dragon can't open it from its side. With the destruction of the eye he also lost the ability to close the gate. Thus, the dragon was able to take control. I'm not sure how the other dragons gates were opened, maybe once the dragon was in control it knew how to open the other gates.

Brings up the notion that if Tet's has 50+ individual dragon's in his body, then how exactly does the Nagi dragon punch steal powers? So far it seems that Souichirou's dragon actually absorbs the other dragon and thus gains its ability. That would explain why the water bullets technique seems so much stronger when Souichirou uses it. Cause his black dragon was stronger than Ishi's water dragon, it seems to allow him control of pretty much any liquid. May explain why Tet's isn't almost God-like, since his dragon's can't combine their powers. But then they were able to transfer the dragon's out of Makiko, so this doesn't seem to quite fit. Maybe the Nagi dragon just sorta borrows the other dragon's power.

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Post by Agent_Wax » Tue Jul 26, 2005 6:09 am

In the last moments of before the destruction of the eye, Tets ditched his machete and opened a gate. We were guessing before that the eye contained the knowledge of how to open/close a gate. But when you talk about opening/closing a gate, you're ultimately talking about controlling the dragon, since if the gate is closed apparently the dragon can't open it from its side. With the destruction of the eye he also lost the ability to close the gate. Thus, the dragon was able to take control. I'm not sure how the other dragons gates were opened, maybe once the dragon was in control it knew how to open the other gates.
Honestly? That's just too complicated when simpler explanations would suffice. Could well be true, but I personally doubt it.

And doesn't anyone think that Reiki is just too Deus Ex Machina this chapter? So iron/steel can't hurt Tetsuhito? No problem! Now it magically can because ... well, because Reiki shed its skin or something. There better be a damn good explanation for that. Otherwise it's just sloppy writing banking on cheap emotional shock tactics. :x


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page 18: Maya: I'm not asking it for free - take my life
She said 'kono inochi' instead of 'ware no inochi', what she usually uses. Could she be referring to Tetsuhito's life instead? :?
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Post by MrProphet » Tue Jul 26, 2005 7:05 am

Her old-man speech (ware, washi, onushi, etc.) was always a bit pretentious. Maybe she decided to ditch it in a life-and-death situation... or just forgot she is supposed to be "old-skool"... 8)

And, anyway, it's natural for Japanese to refer to themselves in third-person.

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Post by shouki » Tue Jul 26, 2005 8:42 am

Agent_Wax wrote:And doesn't anyone think that Reiki is just too Deus Ex Machina this chapter? So iron/steel can't hurt Tetsuhito? No problem! Now it magically can because ... well, because Reiki shed its skin or something. There better be a damn good explanation for that. Otherwise it's just sloppy writing banking on cheap emotional shock tactics. :x
Well, Reiki is supposed to be the combination of lots of advanced freaky stuff. And isn't being impervious to iron/steel kinda silly in the first place - not something that's possible without "magic". So maybe all Reiki did was neutralise the "magic" bound in Tetsuhito's "iron skin" allowing the blade to slice through normally...? We know Reiki can suck up energy, so this doesn't seem unreasonable.

Agent_Wax wrote:Shouki wrote:
page 18: Maya: I'm not asking it for free - take my life
She said 'kono inochi' instead of 'ware no inochi', what she usually uses. Could she be referring to Tetsuhito's life instead? :?
I'm not sure if I can explain it, but I didn't think it was unusual. I'm almost certain she's refering to her own life - she's sacrificing herself in some way, or is willing to.

btw, I'm pretty sure that Aya was taking Tetsuhito's blows for Maya deliberately. Or at least, I think Maya thinks that Aya actively saved her again - which is why she gets rather angry.

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Post by kk1 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:16 pm

EliteF22 wrote:In the last moments of before the destruction of the eye, Tets ditched his machete and opened a gate. We were guessing before that the eye contained the knowledge of how to open/close a gate. But when you talk about opening/closing a gate, you're ultimately talking about controlling the dragon, since if the gate is closed apparently the dragon can't open it from its side. With the destruction of the eye he also lost the ability to close the gate. Thus, the dragon was able to take control. I'm not sure how the other dragons gates were opened, maybe once the dragon was in control it knew how to open the other gates.

Brings up the notion that if Tet's has 50+ individual dragon's in his body, then how exactly does the Nagi dragon punch steal powers? So far it seems that Souichirou's dragon actually absorbs the other dragon and thus gains its ability. That would explain why the water bullets technique seems so much stronger when Souichirou uses it. Cause his black dragon was stronger than Ishi's water dragon, it seems to allow him control of pretty much any liquid. May explain why Tet's isn't almost God-like, since his dragon's can't combine their powers. But then they were able to transfer the dragon's out of Makiko, so this doesn't seem to quite fit. Maybe the Nagi dragon just sorta borrows the other dragon's power.
The impression I get is it's the amount of ki used, whereas Ishi has less ki and so can't add as much ki to the water as Nagi can. It's been said throughout the book how the Nagi family can tap an infinite supply of ki so that when Nagi gains the ability to control the Water Dragon he can add far more ki than Ishiyumi ever could. This also explains why Tets isn't "god-like", while he has the ability to use all those gates he lacks that ki tapping ability of the Nagis.
This is why Nagi and Aya are the 2 most powerful characters, Nagi can tap the ki of everything and Aya can tap the ki of everybody. That's why OG keeps stressing the "fight with oneself" since having that type of power makes you pretty unbeatable to everyone else but going mad with that power is what is really difficult to overcome as we saw with Shin.

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Post by kk1 » Tue Jul 26, 2005 12:50 pm

Agent_Wax wrote:
In the last moments of before the destruction of the eye, Tets ditched his machete and opened a gate. We were guessing before that the eye contained the knowledge of how to open/close a gate. But when you talk about opening/closing a gate, you're ultimately talking about controlling the dragon, since if the gate is closed apparently the dragon can't open it from its side. With the destruction of the eye he also lost the ability to close the gate. Thus, the dragon was able to take control. I'm not sure how the other dragons gates were opened, maybe once the dragon was in control it knew how to open the other gates.
Honestly? That's just too complicated when simpler explanations would suffice. Could well be true, but I personally doubt it.

And doesn't anyone think that Reiki is just too Deus Ex Machina this chapter? So iron/steel can't hurt Tetsuhito? No problem! Now it magically can because ... well, because Reiki shed its skin or something. There better be a damn good explanation for that. Otherwise it's just sloppy writing banking on cheap emotional shock tactics. :x
Eh I'm still waiting on the translation. I mean like shouki said Reiki is supposed to be more than just a sword, it would be kind of lame if it couldn't do something special beyond a regular katana. To me the way he drew it he emphasized the sharpened edge(as I'm sure you guys know katanas have that unique looking edge to them) so I'm thinking the actual blade was covered with a decorative metal to cover up the battle worn blade as it came to be used more cerimoniously, or maybe it's not even made out of iron and Tetsuhito isn't impervious to other metals (though I doubt that). So far OG has been pretty good about using deus ex machina as an easy out so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

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Post by FuguTabetai » Thu Jul 28, 2005 12:13 pm

Well, I've put my text translation up on tjtg.mangatranslation.com, so you can see my take on things.

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Post by EliteF22 » Thu Jul 28, 2005 3:31 pm

Isn't Maya's talk about lamp light almost exactly the same as what Makiko said in the past?

Looks like my earlier guess about Tet's losing control was partially right. So he doesn't have 50 dragons, just that the 8 dragons have multiple abilities? That does seem to be more in line with what we've been seeing so far.

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Post by MrProphet » Thu Jul 28, 2005 5:05 pm

Interesting. It is now obvious that Mitsuomi allied with Kago not because Kago could help him, but more because both of them fear and hate the Red Feathers.

The reason is clear on Mitsuomi's part (he describes himself as just a "warrior", contrary to people "with abilities"), but it'll be interesting to get an insight into Kago's reasoning....

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:01 am

EliteF22 wrote:Isn't Maya's talk about lamp light almost exactly the same as what Makiko said in the past?

Looks like my earlier guess about Tet's losing control was partially right. So he doesn't have 50 dragons, just that the 8 dragons have multiple abilities? That does seem to be more in line with what we've been seeing so far.
I still think it's open to interpretation, since there is no plural she could just as easliy be saying dragon gates, besdies the fact how would Aya know each gate has more than one "ability" and then bother adding them up to get to "more than 50"? I don't think we've seen one gate that has more than one ability. She saw the actual transfer process and so knows exactly how many gates were transferred.

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:11 am

FuguTabetai wrote:Well, I've put my text translation up on tjtg.mangatranslation.com, so you can see my take on things.
Thanks Fugu. Interesting so I was right about Reiki being covered in a cerimonial layer, though , gold? Wouldn't that make the depiction of Reiki the wrong color this whole time? (I guess mainly in the anime since I actually can't find a color manga drwing of Reiki unsheathed).

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Post by Hariel0079 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:17 am

MrProphet wrote:Interesting. It is now obvious that Mitsuomi allied with Kago not because Kago could help him, but more because both of them fear and hate the Red Feathers.

The reason is clear on Mitsuomi's part (he describes himself as just a "warrior", contrary to people "with abilities"), but it'll be interesting to get an insight into Kago's reasoning....

I agree that it is interesting

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 12:41 am

MrProphet wrote:Interesting. It is now obvious that Mitsuomi allied with Kago not because Kago could help him, but more because both of them fear and hate the Red Feathers.

The reason is clear on Mitsuomi's part (he describes himself as just a "warrior", contrary to people "with abilities"), but it'll be interesting to get an insight into Kago's reasoning....
Fear and hate? I really don't think Mitsuomi hates the red feathers, Shin was his best friend.

And are all those people in the flashback supposed to be dead or just beat up?

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:02 am

Sleepy Weasel wrote:
EliteF22 wrote:The site was down cause of a hacker? I wonder if they were trolling the site and noticed what we were talking about and decided to be a jerk. Man, seeing Maya be pissed so many times is great, cause she happens to look really hot when she is!! What was the deal with the whole covering over the handle of Reiki unravelling and threading itself around Maya's arm? It almost makes it look like Reiki is somewhat of a living creature. Any clue as to what Souhaku might be holding at the end. Looks like he's got some sort of obelisk thing in his hands.

the covering was probley made of wood fiber. it looks like she was using it to help her hold on to reiki because of how her arm was broken. needed support for the blow he struck :)
Here's a page explaining the wrapping on a katana hilt http://www.montanairon.com/tsukamaki.html#tying if you don't feel like looking it's made of silk, and while silk moth catapillars eat mulberry leaves to make silk isn't silk still basically a protein produced from a moth's silk gland? I think Oh! Great's really stretching here,not to be gross but by this logic Maya can manipulate a turd if someone's eaten a salad... :shock:

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 1:06 am

Asunder wrote:I believe Reiki's true master will be Aya. It activated in a similar manner for her in chapter 65 (?) , with the mystic bands and all.

It will be interesting to see how powerful Souhaku turns out to be next chapter (if we see a fight with him at all).
Looking through chapter 8 recently pg 39 pretty much has Maya saying she knows it's Aya's...(and that's why she's keeping it away from her).

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Post by EliteF22 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:38 am

Yeah, but that was before Souichirou opened his gate. I'm going to give a detail explanation as to why I think that Aya's not the only possiblity to wield Reiki. As we've seen before, Reiki acts much like a living being. When it was in danger from Mitsuomi, it called to both Aya and Souchirou, perhaps sensing their red feather powers. Both Maya and Shin have pointed out that Reiki tries to control its user, so it would want to choose the less mentally strong of its possible wielders. Aya has never really totally lost control, whereas Souichirou has practically done it twice. The second time during the fight with Mataza, Reiki reacted to him when he lost it.

As for speculation about what might happen in the future, Reiki could be the key to saving Souichirou. Reiki has shown to be able to suppress red feather powers, which maybe why Souhaku fears it. Souhaku's entire purpose for capturing Souichirou was to get him to release all his power, which could very well happen during their upcoming fight. Possibly the main reason for Reiki's and Maya's detention by Tet's is to keep her from using it suppress Souichirou's powers. An interesting detail is that the conflict with Souhaku is a larger conflict beyond the conflict occurring in the school. Reiki appears to be involved in this larger conflict whereas Aya and the rest of the Jyuukenbu and the rest of the Enforcement group are not, that's why their still at the school and why Maya and Mit's didn't bring them along. The possibility of a connection between Souichirou and Reiki just seems to be more likely than Aya and Reiki.

Perhaps we should open a new thread to discuss this topic. I really want to hear everyone else's arguments. Anyone else willing?

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Post by kujoe » Fri Jul 29, 2005 5:09 am

I've thought about that along similar lines, but only in the sense that Reiki must have a significant part to play in the present arc. It may not have anything to do with Souichirou wielding it however.

Personally, I think Reiki still has to tie in with everything that has happened so far--if only just to make the current plot tighter. I mean, it can't just be that "sword that made Shin go nuts in the past."

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Post by shouki » Fri Jul 29, 2005 7:54 am

I think it'd be much more interesting for Aya to master Reiki, and this seems to be where the story is heading. Aya is good with swords, Souichirou has zero training. Aya has already used Reiki, and swore to Shin that she'd master it and not lose. Aya helps Maya use Reiki in the most recent chapter.

Besides, Souichirou doesn't seem to have too much trouble using his powers these days. Getting an additional power-up with Reiki seems unecessary, while Aya still needs to grow.

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 9:47 am

EliteF22 wrote: Yeah, but that was before Souichirou opened his gate. I'm going to give a detail explanation as to why I think that Aya's not the only possiblity to wield Reiki. As we've seen before, Reiki acts much like a living being. When it was in danger from Mitsuomi, it called to both Aya and Souchirou, perhaps sensing their red feather powers.
It called to Souichiro? I've only seen it ever react to 2 people, Shin and Aya when using the dragon eye. Or am I forgetting something?


EliteF22 wrote:
Both Maya and Shin have pointed out that Reiki tries to control its user, so it would want to choose the less mentally strong of its possible wielders. Aya has never really totally lost control, whereas Souichirou has practically done it twice. The second time during the fight with Mataza, Reiki reacted to him when he lost it.
I don't think "control" was ever used Maya says the effect it has is all influenced by the nature of the weilder.
Aya did lose control at the bowling alley. And I'm not sure you can say that was Souichiro it was reacting to during that fight as Aya was using the dragon eye at the same time. So you're arguing Souichicro is less mentally strong than Aya? That might be a tough call considering how many people think Aya is just a stupid air head (though not me).

EliteF22 wrote:
As for speculation about what might happen in the future, Reiki could be the key to saving Souichirou. Reiki has shown to be able to suppress red feather powers, which maybe why Souhaku fears it.
I would say "surpress" has been misunderstood, Shin explained it to Aya, saying it sucks the power out of you and makes you confront that power. Then its up to you. Fu said he wasn't able to supress it without Reiki, meaning Shin surpressed his own power, using Reiki not that Reiki surpressed it for him.
EliteF22 wrote:
Souhaku's entire purpose for capturing Souichirou was to get him to release all his power, which could very well happen during their upcoming fight. Possibly the main reason for Reiki's and Maya's detention by Tet's is to keep her from using it suppress Souichirou's powers. An interesting detail is that the conflict with Souhaku is a larger conflict beyond the conflict occurring in the school. Reiki appears to be involved in this larger conflict whereas Aya and the rest of the Jyuukenbu and the rest of the Enforcement group are not, that's why their still at the school and why Maya and Mit's didn't bring them along. The possibility of a connection between Souichirou and Reiki just seems to be more likely than Aya and Reiki.

More unlikely IMHO. Dougen called Shin it's master and Maya says history is repeating itself with Reiki and Aya. Souichiro seems like a stretch, though I'm sure somewhere down the line we'll see Aya vs Nagi and Reiki will be there.

EliteF22 wrote:
Perhaps we should open a new thread to discuss this topic. I really want to hear everyone else's arguments. Anyone else willing?


Go for it.

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Post by EliteF22 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:26 pm

Volume 8, chapter 47, pages 59 and 60. Souchirou hears Reiki's RIIIIIIIII sound, when Mitsuomi is getting ready to take it from Aya.

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Post by kk1 » Fri Jul 29, 2005 11:13 pm

EliteF22 wrote:Volume 8, chapter 47, pages 59 and 60. Souchirou hears Reiki's RIIIIIIIII sound, when Mitsuomi is getting ready to take it from Aya.
I wouldn't say that it's "calling" him I guess that's showing him hearing it but it's still only reacting because of Aya. If Aya wasn't using her power there it wouldn't be making a sound.

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Post by Gigei » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:53 am

For the sake of the person who will cut the link that binds in the future!!
[Trans. Note] I am not sure what link - the link of the chains of hatred and sorrow she was talking about before? Or the link that binds Reiki? It isn't clear to me.
Also, she could be referring to this:
Those swinging chains from my brother that bind his battle to me even now
That one is also accompanied by a drawing of chains. This also is consistent with people always saying history is repeating itself Possibly Aya will go down Shin's path but Maya is hopeful that her sister will be able to find a different ending than the one Shin took.

The sentence structure is different from English though so I could be off, does that mean its the "links" are in the future or or is it more of "the person who, in the future, will cut the link"?

Well that is a minor point, though. :)

Thanks for the translation. It's more clear to me now what Mits means by 100 years war. I'm with Maya on this one, though.

Overall, a very satisfying chapter!

BTW someone asked if all those people in the flashback were all dead, in the bowling alley fight Maya and Emi say a little bit about it.
(Maya) A long time ago, when I used to fight with those of valor, they were taken out one by one by you. Some of them left the school ... Some of them were never able to fight again...Already the only thing that I have left in my wake is a countless number of corpses
And now we say the past battles they were talking about. Wow Maya actually had a lot of people fighting with her, who would have thought it when she was pretty much a loner in the past arc.

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Post by FuguTabetai » Sat Jul 30, 2005 9:02 am

Gigei wrote:
For the sake of the person who will cut the link that binds in the future!!
[Trans. Note] I am not sure what link - the link of the chains of hatred and sorrow she was talking about before? Or the link that binds Reiki? It isn't clear to me.
Also, she could be referring to this:
Those swinging chains from my brother that bind his battle to me even now
That one is also accompanied by a drawing of chains. This also is consistent with people always saying history is repeating itself Possibly Aya will go down Shin's path but Maya is hopeful that her sister will be able to find a different ending than the one Shin took.

The sentence structure is different from English though so I could be off, does that mean its the "links" are in the future or or is it more of "the person who, in the future, will cut the link"?
I'm not sure. The latter I think, but that was a pretty complicated passage.

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Post by kk1 » Sat Jul 30, 2005 1:24 pm

Gigei wrote:
BTW someone asked if all those people in the flashback were all dead, in the bowling alley fight Maya and Emi say a little bit about it.
(Maya) A long time ago, when I used to fight with those of valor, they were taken out one by one by you. Some of them left the school ... Some of them were never able to fight again...Already the only thing that I have left in my wake is a countless number of corpses
And now we say the past battles they were talking about. Wow Maya actually had a lot of people fighting with her, who would have thought it when she was pretty much a loner in the past arc.
I know what was said in past chapters, but it always sounded like they weren't dead, this one made it sound like they are. And in that quote is Maya referring to them or her brother, parents, etc. ? I just don't think they are dead because until the Enmi (Enma?) family no one thought Mistuomi would do such a thing, but if he'd already done that why would they be shocked now? Even at the bowling alley they weren't trying to kill anybody why would they have done it in the past?

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Post by Hollowshingami » Sat Jul 30, 2005 2:29 pm

Wait, I'm confused. I thought Souhaku was the one who sent Mataza and those thugs. I thought those two members of the Enma family mistook that attack as being ordered by Mistsuomi.

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Post by EliteF22 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 2:46 am

Torrents for the translated 85 and 86 are out using fugu's translation. These have been edited nicely, Evil Genius editors?

ch.86
http://mangatracker.kicks-ass.net:6969/ ... c9f4877ba5
ch.85
http://mangatracker.kicks-ass.net:6969/ ... 9a44e99c0e

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Post by pv82 » Sun Jul 31, 2005 8:26 am

Nice

On the part where they talked about the 24 names in the notebook with abnormal abilities, I think one of them is Masataka

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Post by Agent_Wax » Tue Aug 02, 2005 12:58 am

On the part where they talked about the 24 names in the notebook with abnormal abilities, I think one of them is Masataka
I thought they were talking about 24 families...?

Wait, I'm confused. I thought Souhaku was the one who sent Mataza and those thugs. I thought those two members of the Enma family mistook that attack as being ordered by Mistsuomi
THat's correct. kk1 was saying that there had been no indication in the past that Mitsuomi was a killer. But he raises a good point. The number of people actually confirmed killed (as in dead killed) in this manga can be counted on both hands. Or so we thought. People get crippled and injured all the time, but getting killed? It seems totally out of character for Mitsuomi to do that, given all we have read...
"Swallow your food whole, fool! Do you not know that mastication makes you go blind?"

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Post by EliteF22 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 1:22 am

We know for sure people have been killed because of him. The mercenaries he hired during his coup d'etat that attacked his father were killed by the body guards. I think if you hire men to attempt to machinegun your father, you don't intend for him to live. So he's at least tried to kill people and people have died because of him. Mitsuomi's not that innocent.

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Post by pv82 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 6:13 am

Agent_Wax wrote:
On the part where they talked about the 24 names in the notebook with abnormal abilities, I think one of them is Masataka
I thought they were talking about 24 families...?
Tawara Bunshichi
There are 24 of those guys with abnormal powers that are going through a restructuring period right now but ... I bet there's more out there. The data was locked up during Takayanagi's Coup de'ta ...

Not sure if he is mentioning 24 families... BTW.. wasnt it 36 families???

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Post by kk1 » Tue Aug 02, 2005 10:58 am

EliteF22 wrote:We know for sure people have been killed because of him. The mercenaries he hired during his coup d'etat that attacked his father were killed by the body guards. I think if you hire men to attempt to machinegun your father, you don't intend for him to live. So he's at least tried to kill people and people have died because of him. Mitsuomi's not that innocent.
I'm pretty sure he knew his father wouldn't be killed (he knew how powerful he is) and that whole scene purposely shows his mercenaries just disarming and not killing all of Dougen's security. With the surprise he had that could have easliy been a slaughter, but it wasn't. Mitsuomi made sure to take out the bodyguards when they started killing the mercenaries too. Still even with all that, that's not the school. I mean even with all the weird stuff theat school does it's still run like a school. Maya got expelled for Ryuzaki and the bowling alley, I don't see how Mitsuomi can murder a dozen students and not have anything happen to him. They must be just beat up.

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