Is GMAO still alive?

Information about GMAO - the application I (write and) use to translate manga.

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volute
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Is GMAO still alive?

Post by volute »

Hi,
I've been looking for a free software to translate comics and GMAO seems perfect! Congratulations for the good job. Is the project still alive?

I downloaded the Mac version (GMAO.dmg) from that page:
http://fugutabetai.com/software/GMAO/
Is it the latest version (1.9, I assume)? It is unclear which version it is (the mac property box indicates GMAOGUI 1.0). If it is not the latest version, where can I get it?

The version I downloaded seems to work well, but at startup, it looks for the file http://tjtg.mangatranslation.com/tjtg01.xml
The parsing takes a very long time, and finally a "time out" message appears.

Looking a bit at the doc, I figured I could change the xml file path in the options. I actually set up the options so that I could work locally (as explained in
http://fugutabetai.com/software/GMAO/quickStart.html )
It all worked very well, except that the options were not saved, so each time I restart GMAO, I have to wait for the time out error message and reconfigure the options. Kind of annoying!

I tried to see if I could fix the .props file manually, but I'm not sure where it is... then downloaded the .jar file (doesn't seem to be the latest version), tried to compile the source but got the error
make: *** No rule to make target `GMAOGUI.class', needed by `GMAOGUI'. Stop.
At that point I gave up.

Is there a simple way to solve my problem?

Pascal

PS- This is a very cool project, and I'd be happy to help within my capacity (I'm familiar with Java).
volute
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Saving options?

Post by volute »

Ok, it seems I had downloaded the latest version 1.9.x... (I had checked the Mac info box, instead of the "About GMAO" menu... silly).

Now, looking at the source more carefully, I saw the .props file is expected to be in the user home directory. So I put a copy there, change the default xml file by hand, and now I can avoid the time out error message!

However, changing this in the application doesn't modify the .props file in the user home directory. So the options are not saved. Looks to me that this needs to be fixed, or am I misunderstanding the way things work?
volute
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Re: Saving options?

Post by volute »

volute wrote:Ok, it seems I had downloaded the latest version 1.9.x... (I had checked the Mac info box, instead of the "About GMAO" menu... silly).

Now, looking at the source more carefully, I saw the .props file is expected to be in the user home directory. So I put a copy there, change the default xml file by hand, and now I can avoid the time out error message!

However, changing this in the application doesn't modify the .props file in the user home directory. So the options are not saved. Looks to me that this needs to be fixed, or am I misunderstanding the way things work?
I could finally compile GMAO (which was not straightforward). Now I understand the bug: options are saved when the window is closed (which might be the usual way of exiting on Windows or Linux) but are not saved when exiting with the Quit command or Apple-Q (on Mac). For the moment, I have to think about closing the window rather than quitting.

GMAO is almost perfect for my needs, except that only the first translation appears on the image (and thus only the first translation is exported as an image - although the HTML export does display all languages). I wish there was a way to display and export the other translations (or is there?).
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Re: Saving options?

Post by FuguTabetai »

First off, I'm really happy to see another user! I think that brings the active user base up to three or four users. :)

GMAO is definitely alive; I use it every day to translate something. It is just that, while there are bugs, it is working well enough that I haven't felt the need to make any changes lately. I am interested in adding zip tones (or ink tones or whatever they are) or in general patterns as fill values, but that is about the only major thing. Oh, and a complete re-write of the drawing code so bubbles are JComponents and can pick up cacheing and stuff like that. But that isn't going to happen.

Now to your questions:
volute wrote: I could finally compile GMAO (which was not straightforward). Now I understand the bug: options are saved when the window is closed (which might be the usual way of exiting on Windows or Linux) but are not saved when exiting with the Quit command or Apple-Q (on Mac). For the moment, I have to think about closing the window rather than quitting.
Yes, that is the problem. I haven't made GMAO extend the Apple Application stub class so I can capture OSX system commands. It is something that I would like to do, but it is so minor and doesn't bother me enough to make the change. Just quit with File->Quit and your changes will be saved.
volute wrote: GMAO is almost perfect for my needs, except that only the first translation appears on the image (and thus only the first translation is exported as an image - although the HTML export does display all languages). I wish there was a way to display and export the other translations (or is there?).
I don't understand the question? What is the problem? You can select which language you prefer to display (I usually use "English") and GMAO will display the preferred language if any translations in that language exist. If there are translations in other languages, it will choose the one to display based on (probably!) the first one. I think. Maybe the last one. The only languages I ever have are Japanese or English, so it just isn't something I've ever really tested.

There are also some ancillary GMAO-related scripts that are not accessible via the GUI. Mainly, I have some perl scripts create chapter summaries (XSLT with some string replacement) and create index HTML and individual pages for auto-edit images, but they aren't really that complicated. Let me know if you are interested in that kind of thing.

Also, the default template for Character Lists are crappy compared to the ones that I am using now -- see the Tenjo Tenge character lists which have nice DHTML table sorting and so on.
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Post by FuguTabetai »

Also the documentation is hilariously out of date.

I don't really have a build system since I am using Eclipse and it takes care of all that stuff for me. Shouldn't be too complicated though.
volute
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Re: Saving options?

Post by volute »

Ah, I was starting to feel alone on this forum! :-)
FuguTabetai wrote:First off, I'm really happy to see another user! I think that brings the active user base up to three or four users. :)
That few?! I thought there was a huge community of manga translators out there. What do they use if they don't use GMAO? This is the only decent program I found on the web.

By the way, here is some background info about me: I'm French and currently live in the US (my situation - postdoc - is not very different from yours, I think). It looks like comics in the US are dominated by "superheroes" and mainly target teenagers. In French-speaking countries, comics (or rather, graphic novels) considered a form of art, and there is a huge diversity of works for children and adults. Unfortunately, none of these are known in the US (nor in Japan for that matter). The only ones I can find here are Tintin and Asterix (and still you have to look for them - and no one knows about them anyway). This is a sad situation (for me because I can't enjoy European comics here), but most importantly for all the countries which don't know what they're missing!
But then I thought, after all, even in the US, mangas became very popular. I guess "scanlations" greatly contributed to creating a market.
I thought I could bring my contribution by translating some of my favourites French or Belgian "graphic novels". I could have friends translate them in Japanese as well.
This is why I thought the "manga scanlation" community could help me, at least provide me the tools. So I'm glad I have found GMAO, even though it's slightly buggy and could be improved.

I am happy to report I succesfully translated a forty-five page album. The result looks very nice and professional.
FuguTabetai wrote: Yes, that is the problem. I haven't made GMAO extend the Apple Application stub class so I can capture OSX system commands. It is something that I would like to do, but it is so minor and doesn't bother me enough to make the change. Just quit with File->Quit and your changes will be saved.
Well, that shouldn't be too difficult to implement. I did that some time ago. (File->Quit does NOT save the options, only closing the windows does).
FuguTabetai wrote: I don't understand the question? What is the problem? You can select which language you prefer to display (I usually use "English") and GMAO will display the preferred language if any translations in that language exist. If there are translations in other languages, it will choose the one to display based on (probably!) the first one. I think. Maybe the last one. The only languages I ever have are Japanese or English, so it just isn't something I've ever really tested.
Well. Basically, I create a bubble. Then click "edit translation". I type the character's name, language ("English") then the English text in the "note" field. Then the English text appears in the bubble. Now suppose I want to add a Japanese version. I click "new translation". I get the same dialog box with the character's name greyed out (normal). I type "Japanese" in the language, and the Japanese translation in the "note" field. Then, I notice that in the "Annotation Information Frame" window, I can switch between English and Japanese by clicking on "previous" and "next". That's good. But the bubble still displays the English text.
I looked at different options, but I can never get the bubble to display the Japanese version... When I export the images, the bubble contains the English translation.
How do I get the second language to be displayed inside the bubbles??

( If I export to HTML, then I can see the original pictures, and moving the mouse over bubbles displays a box with all the translations (both English and Japanese). That's good for teaching purposes... but not what I'm trying to get at the moment).
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Re: Saving options?

Post by FuguTabetai »

volute wrote: That few?! I thought there was a huge community of manga translators out there. What do they use if they don't use GMAO? This is the only decent program I found on the web.
Almost 100% of the groups out there - the community is very large, see for example the forum at MangaNews.net, use pirated copies of Photoshop. They have one person do a translation, usually into just a text file, another person then proofreads the script, and another person takes the original scans and uses Photoshop to edit in the translation. Personally, I think the hardest part is the translation, and if you are going to translate into more than one language, the step of manually editing in the text is duplicated effort. The only problem comes in when you have to edit out some text or re-draw portions of the art. I've been experimenting with http://www.logarithmic.net/pfh/resynthesizer for automatically removing things like that, and I am quite pleased.
volute wrote: By the way, here is some background info about me: I'm French and currently live in the US (my situation - postdoc - is not very different from yours, I think). It looks like comics in the US are dominated by "superheroes" and mainly target teenagers.
In the US the market is changing to accept more "graphic novels" as serious works, but it still is not the norm. You have to go to comic specialty stores for that kind of thing. (I do know about Tintin and Asterix, by the way.)
volute wrote: I thought I could bring my contribution by translating some of my favourites French or Belgian "graphic novels". I could have friends translate them in Japanese as well.
This is why I thought the "manga scanlation" community could help me, at least provide me the tools. So I'm glad I have found GMAO, even though it's slightly buggy and could be improved.
It sure could be improved! As a hobby though, it seems ok. :)
volute wrote: I am happy to report I succesfully translated a forty-five page album. The result looks very nice and professional.
Oh, that is great! Congratulations. Is it hosted somewhere?
volute wrote:
FuguTabetai wrote: Yes, that is the problem. I haven't made GMAO extend the Apple Application stub class so I can capture OSX system commands. It is something that I would like to do, but it is so minor and doesn't bother me enough to make the change. Just quit with File->Quit and your changes will be saved.
Well, that shouldn't be too difficult to implement. I did that some time ago. (File->Quit does NOT save the options, only closing the windows does).
You implemented the ApplicationStub class to receive Apple application events? Could you send me that code? I would like to do that eventually, but haven't had the time myself.
volute wrote: Well. Basically, I create a bubble. Then click "edit translation". I type the character's name, language ("English") then the English text in the "note" field. Then the English text appears in the bubble. Now suppose I want to add a Japanese version. I click "new translation". I get the same dialog box with the character's name greyed out (normal). I type "Japanese" in the language, and the Japanese translation in the "note" field. Then, I notice that in the "Annotation Information Frame" window, I can switch between English and Japanese by clicking on "previous" and "next". That's good. But the bubble still displays the English text.
I looked at different options, but I can never get the bubble to display the Japanese version... When I export the images, the bubble contains the English translation.
How do I get the second language to be displayed inside the bubbles??
Go to GMAO->Options and click the "Appearance" tab. Set "Preferred language" to Japanese. The bubbles should now display the Japanese translations.
volute
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Re: Saving options?

Post by volute »

FuguTabetai wrote: Almost 100% of the groups out there - the community is very large, see for example the forum at MangaNews.net, use pirated copies of Photoshop.
I see... that sounds painful; these people are courageous. GMAO is the kind of software solution I would expect, rather than "raw" editing.
FuguTabetai wrote: In the US the market is changing to accept more "graphic novels" as serious works, but it still is not the norm. You have to go to comic specialty stores for that kind of thing. (I do know about Tintin and Asterix, by the way.)
Good! By the way, it seems that Tintin will be adapted into a film by Spielberg.
FuguTabetai wrote:
volute wrote: I am happy to report I succesfully translated a forty-five page album. The result looks very nice and professional.
Oh, that is great! Congratulations. Is it hosted somewhere?
Not yet. But I'll do that soon! The main problem is that it's a bit heavy.
FuguTabetai wrote:
volute wrote: Well, that shouldn't be too difficult to implement. I did that some time ago. (File->Quit does NOT save the options, only closing the windows does).
You implemented the ApplicationStub class to receive Apple application events? Could you send me that code? I would like to do that eventually, but haven't had the time myself.
Something like that:

// Mac OS SPECIFIC CODE
import com.apple.eawt.ApplicationAdapter;
import com.apple.eawt.ApplicationEvent;
import com.apple.eawt.Application;

if (System.getProperty("mrj.version") == null) { // Non Mac OS
// ...
} else { // Mac OS SPECIFIC CODE
Application.getApplication().addApplicationListener(
new ApplicationAdapter() {
public void handleAbout(ApplicationEvent event) {
about();
event.setHandled(true);
}
public void handleQuit(ApplicationEvent event) {
closeFile(true);
}
}
);
}

But make sure this doesn't cause problem on other platforms.
FuguTabetai wrote: Go to GMAO->Options and click the "Appearance" tab. Set "Preferred language" to Japanese. The bubbles should now display the Japanese translations.
Ahhh.... that's what I missed. Apparently, the scroll down menu is not updated when a language is added, but if one quits and restart GMAO the new language appears in the menu!
Good! It works almost perfectly... the character ー (long Japanese stroke) does not appear (maybe it's a font problem).

GMAO is fully functional and works well. I think it would be worthwhile spending some time to fix the few glitches that occur here and there, to make GMAO a completely enjoyable experience. (I know, I know.. you probably don't have time, but I guess some could be fixed very quickly).

Here are some little bugs:
* quit on the Mac
* if ones adds a page without creating a chapter first -> freezes
* sometimes the border of some bubbles becomes blue

Appearance:
* the annotator window is sometimes cumbersome, especially when the main window is in full screen. I would suggest to dock it at the bottom of the main window. More importantly, it would be nice if it could be edited directly rather through another window.
* Smelling pistake: Preffered -> preferred
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Re: Saving options?

Post by FuguTabetai »

volute wrote: But make sure this doesn't cause problem on other platforms.
That is why I haven't gone and implemented that already - I need to read up a bit about including the stub classes for other platforms.
volute wrote:
FuguTabetai wrote: Go to GMAO->Options and click the "Appearance" tab. Set "Preferred language" to Japanese. The bubbles should now display the Japanese translations.
Ahhh.... that's what I missed. Apparently, the scroll down menu is not updated when a language is added, but if one quits and restart GMAO the new language appears in the menu!
Yes, I only check the languages that are in the XML file when the file is read. You can re-read the file and it should re-update as well. In general, adding a new language isn't something that happens often so I thought that is a reasonable approach. Same thing for Characters too, if you want to try to set specific font information for a character.
volute wrote: Good! It works almost perfectly... the character ー (long Japanese stroke) does not appear (maybe it's a font problem).
That is a font problem. Make sure the font you are using contains that character. I have not found a good font that has both Japanese and English characters.
volute wrote: Here are some little bugs:
* quit on the Mac
* if ones adds a page without creating a chapter first -> freezes
* sometimes the border of some bubbles becomes blue
I won't have time to work on the quit bug for a while. It is a minor inconvenience. Same thing with adding a page when there are no chapters: don't do that! I'll look at it next time I open up the codebase though.

When do bubble borders turn blue? Check the "Appearance" pane in the options panel. You should set the default bubble border color to white. Bubbles should turn blue when you mouse over them and the character for the bubble should be displayed.
volute wrote: Appearance:
* the annotator window is sometimes cumbersome, especially when the main window is in full screen. I would suggest to dock it at the bottom of the main window. More importantly, it would be nice if it could be edited directly rather through another window.
* Smelling pistake: Preffered -> preferred
[/quote]
The Annotation Information Frame is annoying. Close it. You almost never need it. Also, there is a bug on OSX: if you close the window (it will remember that it is closed on not appear on next application open) after adding a new note, the window mysteriously shows up again, and is not closeable. It makes no sense.

As for editing, click on a bubble with no text. The edit box will show up. Afterward, just click on the text in the bubble and you can edit it directly. Be careful though, when words wrap, sometimes the insertion point gets thrown off by a character or two. This is a really difficult conceptual problem and has no easy (or even hard) solution.

I'll try to clean up spelling mistakes, but in general the GMAO GUI should use per-language bundles to specify UI text. It does not though. Too bad, it would be nice to have i18n versions, but back when I started this project in 1999 I didn't know it would grow to this size.
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