Fight 61
Moderator: FuguTabetai
Fight 61
Hey Fugu, a quick question to ease my confusion. About the 'stun rapiers': A rapier is 'a light sword used for thrusting and fencing'. So shouldn't those lightsaber-like thingies be called 'stun lances'? After all, the Hayabusa bastards use them for jousting, right?
Agent Wax
Agent Wax
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A lance is merely a spear (a shaft with a blade fixed on one end) designed for use while mounted. Heavy lances of the Western European tradition started as simple spears and evolved into a distinct weapon easily recognized as differant than a footman's spear or pike.zombi3d wrote:i dunno man, a lance is really long and heavy, and is used with one hand
those stun rapiers look kinda like the swords in star wars, the ones that shine and stuff.... plus they use two hands to carry them so i guess theyre swords
They were still wielded one-handed (a mounted combatant would typically hold the lance vertically until he was ready to strike, at which point he would bring the point down, delivering the entire momentum of himself and his mount into his opponent focused through the tip of the lance. As you can imagine, it was very efficient. The other hand would be used for a shield and the reins, though most combat movements were controlled by applying pressure with the knees. Early lances could we wielded two-handed as with any other spear.
In the Japanese Tradition, lances were much more similar to a footman's spear than in the Western Tradition. Lance would be an appropriate description for the weapons shown in Fight 61.
And yes, "rapier" is a light sword, with a sharp tip and at least part of one edge sharpened as well. Clearly they were misnamed, but as Fugu noted, the author did that, not the translator.
Agreed. Bob and Nagi aren't exactly the kind to get nostalgic in any detail, so I'm glad one of the bad guys shared his homework with us.Waso Dodu wrote: nagi past was interesting
i really wonder who is his father
kago souhaku jyouun
and i wonder what is the true strenght makiko is talking about
As for the true source of strength.... It really depends upon how "traditional Japanese" the author is taking this story. There certainly are a great many potential answers. Considering that she only has one arm, and has to wear a patch over a horrible disfigurement, I'm guessing that a willingness to self-sacrifice is involved somehow. This assumes that she thinks herself to be strong.
oh!great !!!!!!! pleaseeee !!!! Stop with Nagi and Aya !!!!!! We (I) want Maya, Masataka, Bunshichi and Asshat !!!!!!!
grrrr I don't like TenTen vol.10
grrrr I don't like TenTen vol.10
Juken power
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<img src=http://membres.lycos.fr/shenrenmue/jukenteam.jpg>
Just wondering...
I know that Nagi is practically an amateur compared to the rest of the gang, but what's up with that scene where he tries to beat up those henchmen? Previously, he was able to go head to head against Sagara Mask even though he lost in the end. He even was able to throw a few punches to Mitsuomi in the bowling alley -- then all of a sudden he runs away from these thugs as if they were 3 times stronger.
Those henchmen took all those punches as if they came from a baby! That's pretty damn inconsistent if you ask me. What kind of writing is this?! I really hope there's an explanation for this...
I know that Nagi is practically an amateur compared to the rest of the gang, but what's up with that scene where he tries to beat up those henchmen? Previously, he was able to go head to head against Sagara Mask even though he lost in the end. He even was able to throw a few punches to Mitsuomi in the bowling alley -- then all of a sudden he runs away from these thugs as if they were 3 times stronger.
Those henchmen took all those punches as if they came from a baby! That's pretty damn inconsistent if you ask me. What kind of writing is this?! I really hope there's an explanation for this...
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What gave you the impression that Sagara Mask is actually a tough guy? He impresses high school kids. Whooptie-doo. The antagonists from the earlier parts of the story exist to establish some backstory and the main characters' personalities.kujoe wrote:I know that Nagi is practically an amateur compared to the rest of the gang, but what's up with that scene where he tries to beat up those henchmen? Previously, he was able to go head to head against Sagara Mask even though he lost in the end. He even was able to throw a few punches to Mitsuomi in the bowling alley -- then all of a sudden he runs away from these thugs as if they were 3 times stronger.
Note that it's Bob that is actually a prime physical specimen with some strength, speed, and natural potential. Nagi is just some punkass from a prestigious family. That's why we love him
Of course, scenes like this (with the thugs shrugging of Nagi's punches) are symptomatic of a major underlying problem with any "I wanna be strong" fighting manga: each opponent must be more menacing than the last. This leads to a chain of ever-more-powerful bogeymen that extends into utter implausibility unless the story is wrapped up in a timely fashion.
You have a point there, but Sagara's strength is apparently enough that he would be able to stand in their way. And yes, the opponents now are indeed stronger. But the fights between Nagi and Sagara, and even between Nagi and Ishiyumi were presented in a such a way that they exposed the readers to Nagi's potential, whereas in Fight 61 he simply throws a few punches and runs away from these henchmen like it's back to square one.burrowowl wrote:What gave you the impression that Sagara Mask is actually a tough guy? He impresses high school kids. Whooptie-doo. The antagonists from the earlier parts of the story exist to establish some backstory and the main characters' personalities.
Note that it's Bob that is actually a prime physical specimen with some strength, speed, and natural potential. Nagi is just some punkass from a prestigious family. That's why we love him
Of course, scenes like this (with the thugs shrugging of Nagi's punches) are symptomatic of a major underlying problem with any "I wanna be strong" fighting manga: each opponent must be more menacing than the last. This leads to a chain of ever-more-powerful bogeymen that extends into utter implausibility unless the story is wrapped up in a timely fashion.
Even for a fighting manga, it's done in such an offhand and blatant manner that it looks ridiculous in light of what's been established. At least justify or show why those thugs were stronger -- show some moves or a longer fighting scene or whatever -- not Nagi running away! You'd think Nagi would've at least gotten a bit stronger, but no.
Of course, it's part of the comic relief but still -- I was hoping that Nagi would be able to put up a better fight than that. Then again, maybe I'm just tired of plot devices that I think are poorly employed.
Did anyone notice that there seems to be more than 5 members of F? There were the 5 we've already seen, and then there appears to be what looks like a hunchbacked person in a kimono. I don't know whether that was supposed to represent Nagi. And while we're there, since Nagi has a possible 'open membership' in F, doesn't that indirectly imply that his dad was from a yellow feather family?
Agent Wax
Agent Wax
Youz3n wrote:
Kujoe wrote:
Ryuzaki wiped the floor with him before he learned the Forged Needle Technique. Even after that, he just barely managed to beat Sagara, and it was more a case of outlasting Sagara's attacks and pounding him with Forged Needles. Nagi kicked Sagara 3 times in the head consecutively, but the big guy just got up and shrugged it off.
He managed to beat Mitsuomi that time because he had partially opened his 'Dragon's Gate' (as is evident from the flattened hair), though he was not aware of it at the time. Mitsuomi was probably too complacent himself. Bushichi later defeated Nagi in school without breaking a sweat.
Finally, Ishiyumi. Recall that Ishiyumi weakened himself by stuffing metal into his body, but this was evidently still too much for Nagi. Nagi's normal attacks barely fazed Ishiyumi, and only after powering up was he able to do some serious damage to the prettyboy.
And note that this is the first time that Nagi had the chance to go toe-to-toe with a Takayanagi Clan soldier. It's not like he could beat them before and couldn't now, so it's not really inconsistent.
As far as Bob is concerned, he's gotten stronger. Maya said as much in Fight 50. But how much stronger remains to be seen.
Agent Wax
Ahh... could somebody please remind me which side is the red and which side the yellow? I've forgotten and I think I have them confused.Kago was listed as one of the 12 Red Feather General Gods (flying phoenix).
So, I'd assume his dad, Kago Souhaku Jyouun, is a Red Feather.
Kujoe wrote:
I flipped through some of the older volumes, and this is the impression I got. Nagi was never that strong to begin with. He himself acknowledges that much, and is still in training to become stronger. Aside from his Dragon Fist power attacks and Forged Needle, his punches and kicks are pretty run-of-the-mill for a punk his size. His 'strength' seems to come in the form of a 'rapid-recharge' for his 'Health Meter' (to speak in video game terms). He takes a pounding and keeps on going. This much is obvious from his fights with both Mitsuomi and Masataka.know that Nagi is practically an amateur compared to the rest of the gang, but what's up with that scene where he tries to beat up those henchmen? Previously, he was able to go head to head against Sagara Mask even though he lost in the end. He even was able to throw a few punches to Mitsuomi in the bowling alley -- then all of a sudden he runs away from these thugs as if they were 3 times stronger.
Those henchmen took all those punches as if they came from a baby! That's pretty damn inconsistent if you ask me. What kind of writing is this?! I really hope there's an explanation for this...
Ryuzaki wiped the floor with him before he learned the Forged Needle Technique. Even after that, he just barely managed to beat Sagara, and it was more a case of outlasting Sagara's attacks and pounding him with Forged Needles. Nagi kicked Sagara 3 times in the head consecutively, but the big guy just got up and shrugged it off.
He managed to beat Mitsuomi that time because he had partially opened his 'Dragon's Gate' (as is evident from the flattened hair), though he was not aware of it at the time. Mitsuomi was probably too complacent himself. Bushichi later defeated Nagi in school without breaking a sweat.
Finally, Ishiyumi. Recall that Ishiyumi weakened himself by stuffing metal into his body, but this was evidently still too much for Nagi. Nagi's normal attacks barely fazed Ishiyumi, and only after powering up was he able to do some serious damage to the prettyboy.
And note that this is the first time that Nagi had the chance to go toe-to-toe with a Takayanagi Clan soldier. It's not like he could beat them before and couldn't now, so it's not really inconsistent.
As far as Bob is concerned, he's gotten stronger. Maya said as much in Fight 50. But how much stronger remains to be seen.
Agent Wax
Well, I'm not really saying that Nagi won in those fights. In fact he lost in all of them. But just like you said, all he could do at his stage is to outlast the other guy, and each time he tried we see some "progress" such as traces of his Dragon Gate here and there. Couldn't we at least see some of that when he faced those henchmen? It's like Nagi didn't show that much effort anymore compared to his previous losses.
Sure, they're just henchmen and probably don't deserve that much attention compared to the rest and this may just be a small part in the overall story, but still...running away? Well, in retrospect maybe that's a better idea than getting totally clobbered, but I also wanted to see more on how strong these men really were. At least a punch that makes Nagi realize that he had no chance at the moment and that there's no other way but to run. And Bunshichi is another matter entirely.
Well, I haven't finished reading the entire vol10 yet since I rely on the translations -- but thanks for sharing your opinions.
Sure, they're just henchmen and probably don't deserve that much attention compared to the rest and this may just be a small part in the overall story, but still...running away? Well, in retrospect maybe that's a better idea than getting totally clobbered, but I also wanted to see more on how strong these men really were. At least a punch that makes Nagi realize that he had no chance at the moment and that there's no other way but to run. And Bunshichi is another matter entirely.
Well, I haven't finished reading the entire vol10 yet since I rely on the translations -- but thanks for sharing your opinions.
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